teacup
Auror
Cid was Robin Williams. Do not tell me he wasn't awesome.
Huh. I thought the feel of FFIX was pulled of brilliantly, and I do love IX. How come you thought it hadn't been pulled off well?
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Final Fantasy
- Thread starter Philip Overby
- Start date
Cid was Robin Williams. Do not tell me he wasn't awesome.
Huh. I thought the feel of FFIX was pulled of brilliantly, and I do love IX. How come you thought it hadn't been pulled off well?
Zero Angel
Auror
That article's one of the first ones I wrote for Mythic Scribes, I think.
My opinion has slightly changed since then, but not much. I think some of the online entries of Final Fantasy (11 and 14) allow for a lot of customization, so perhaps that scratches that particular itch. Maybe doing so in a main entry wouldn't work for the series. However, what I meant by giving players more options is allowing them to shape their relationships with characters and even the world around them, the same way you can do so in Skyrim. If you want to be a murdering psychopath, you can be that. If you want to be the hero that saves the day, you can do that too. I agree that I don't think Skyrim's storyline is as strong as its playability, but I guess I don't expect that from the Elder Scrolls games.
FFVI is on a lot of top RPGs of all time lists, and for good reason. I think one reason is because the story is incredible, everyone can find a character that they like or relate to, and it had some pretty revolutionary ideas at the time. Without giving spoilers away, the game blew my mind at a young age with some of the things it dared to do.
For me, I imagine, some what if situations:
1. What if you could play the game as a Dark Knight, the same way you could in FFIV. However, you don't have to become a paladin, but instead stay on your same path. What if you decide to turn to the "dark side" so to speak? How would this effect your relationships with other characters?
2. What if your party could be wildly different and react to you depending on your actions (a la Dragon Age or Baldur's Gate.) If you went around slaughtering moogles and destroying crystals, you couldn't have a good party. But if you were a defender of everything that was good, you couldn't have certain members in your group.
3. What if a Final Fantasy game allowed you to truly shape the way things turned out, for better or for worse?
These are things I imagine that could allow for the series to get a boost. Sure, Chrono Trigger allowed for branching storylines, but you didn't have too many choices that actually effected the game (unless you count what to do with Magus, which I always loved). For me, allowing a bit more ability to craft your own main character (with voicework like Mass Effect does for both male and female) and then decide what path they take through a world like Ivalice or Spira would be incredible in my opinion.
So while I believe too much customization may tip the scales too much, if you allow choices for players, I think it could really spike some interest in the future.
I have never felt any interest in playing the online FF offerings. I remember seeing FFXI and thinking it looked interesting, but I was not the type of gamer to shell out cash monthly back then and it took me years to even give WoW a try (and Warcraft was one of the only series where I owned every entry and every expansion; granted, that was only 4-6 games back then, but still)
Those are interesting ideas. In keeping with FF, instead of designing your own character, they could have offered multiple paths through the world with different characters/parties and some major game-altering decisions along the way such as your staying a dark knight example. I wouldn't have a problem with that at all and feel that could really add a lot of value to the games. I get the feeling that they don't like spending times on parts that they don't think everyone is going to see. I understand spending more time on the major pieces of the game, but when you go off on a side quest and there isn't a single special scene and you're kinda' just doing a chore instead of discovering something awesome, it's annoying.
I never felt bored in FFVII except for grinding to better beat the weapons. In FFVIII, most of the secondary side quests (that didn't end in getting a GF) bored me, and there are a few that to this day I have never completed entirely in spite of being a completionist.
With Chrono Trigger, one of the bigger choices you have is whether or not to try to save Crono! If you didn't care for him, you could have beat the game without him. Magus's bit is way better though. I agree.
I thought Chrono Cross largely dropped the ball in spite of how much I enjoyed it. I had planned on playing it the requisite 4 times through in order to get every character and see most of the endings, but after the ridiculous let-down of the "best" ending, I walked away and never even started a single New Game+. Most of your choices just meant that you didn't see certain characters or other characters took their places. Hardly any of the characters had any level of depth, and apparently they ran out of time before being able to incorporate Magus (supposedly Guile was originally supposed to be Magus). I remember Game Informer gave Cross RPG of the Year in spite of originally giving a higher rating to FFIX.
Cid was Robin Williams. Do not tell me he wasn't awesome.
Huh. I thought the feel of FFIX was pulled of brilliantly, and I do love IX. How come you thought it hadn't been pulled off well?
Hahaha, that's awesome. I take it back, Cid is badass.
...wait, no, I played the game again. He may resemble Robin Williams, and he even has some level of humor, but I couldn't help feeling that he was not just not badass, but less than pitiable.
In regards to FFIX. Most of the characters annoyed me and really jarred me out of the game. I enjoyed Garnet and thought Freya was well-done (although, I didn't care for her), but even Eiko was more annoying than cute. Zidane had some personality, but I never felt any connection to him. I did not understand the characters tolerating Amarant and Steiner was more annoying than honorable. I enjoyed his rapport with Bellatrix, that's about it. i also couldn't get on board with the Garnet/Zidane relationship.
I just felt that too much was misfired. The interactions between people and most of the scenes throughout the game always seemed to try to go for humor instead of sincerity, so even after you have attempted genocides and utter devastation, it still has this attempted humor quality that ruined the magic of the setting/feel. I don't have a problem with humor, but it was more slapstick humor than what I would have expected.
It's possible that without feeling the connection to the characters that the game is just too dated for me to fully enjoy and that the rest is just me trying to come up with reasons why it didn't work for me.
I would still rate the game a 7 or 7.5 out of 10, so it's not like I dislike it at all.
teacup
Auror
I don't remember that about the humour - just that it was funny. I'll have a look out for it when I next replay it.
About the characters, well that's just where our opinions differ. I loved every one of the characters, but I do agree Eiko was annoying, but somehow that didn't lessen her as a character for me. Maybe that's just the nostalgia effect clouding my thoughts, though.
Zero Angel
Auror
Everyone has different preferences. That doesn't make them any less valid. It's possible I experienced the game at the wrong time of my life and have some sort of anti-nostalgia working against it now. I recently played through all the way to where you can't progress any further without closing off side-quests and I enjoyed my time with the game, but it is not at all on my list of favorite games, favorite RPGs, favorite JRPGs, favorite FFs. I think it made it onto my top ten of PS1 games, and definitely top ten of PS1 RPGs.
OH! VIVI! Vivi was wonderful.
Also, apparently FFIX has the highest Metacritic score.
On a side comment that doesn't really have to do with the game itself, the strategy guide was the worst strategy guide of all-time.
For my personal play-style, I enjoy power-gaming, and even though you can get a few different abilities that do 9999 every time, they were generally boring to level up (Thievery, Dragon Crest and Frog Drop).
It was nice being able to steal from the beginning though. That's always frustrating having to wait.
- Thread starter
- #45
It's hard to reply to everything, so I'll just do my patented "Phil List."
1. My point about giving what I call "Bioware Choices" is that many players enjoy being able to actually make a difference in what happens to their characters. If you had a Final Fantasy that functioned like Mass Effect or Knights of the Old Republic, in which you could go the more Paragon/Light Side (good), neutral, or Renegade/Dark Side (bad) routes, it would offer higher replay value and allow you to try different things with the storylines. I figure if Bioware can do this, why can't Square Enix? You could even have job systems like in Tactics and other games, that are restricted according to what path you take. For example, if you get a certain number of Paragon points, you can make a Paladin, while if you get a certain number of Renegade points you can make a Dark Knight. Some jobs wouldn't be restricted by your moral choices, but maybe a FF2 style or Skyrim style of whatever skills you use allows you to open new jobs. (If you use lots of magic, you can become a Black or White Mage, if you are a bruiser you can be a Warrior or Berserker.) I just think doing something like that could open up so many new horizons and still have the Final Fantasy style that everyone loves.
2. Chrono Trigger, like you said, is probably closest to this that exists in the Square Enix universe. Maybe Chrono Cross (I didn't play it enough to know?) You can actually complete the game without certain characters (same in FFVI) if you want. I thought that was a really cool added feature. Being able to fight Lavos whenever you wanted to was really cool. I couldn't think of any other game that allowed me to fight the last boss at the beginning of the game. That's one reason Chrono Trigger is often regarded as one of the best RPGs ever. I believe some people play RPGs because they like "role-playing." Meaning they want to create characters, forge their own story if they can, and see what happens when they interact with others.
3. Final Fantasy IX ranks pretty high for me, but still below VI and IV. I'd say it's in my top 5. For me, I like the quirkiness of it and how it didn't take itself so seriously. After VIII, it was a definite breath of fresh air. I personally think XIII is terribly underrated. I see so many people bash the living hell out of it, but looking back in several years, I believe it'll be more widely known as not being as bad as some hardcore fans make it out to be. It's definitely not my favorite, but I liked it. Perhaps VIII has that same effect now. It was widely seen as a disappointment after the stellar VII (in my top 5), but has since formed its own fan base which I've noticed is primarily people in their twenties who played it as their first Final Fantasy. There are many 14 and 15 year olds who are playing XIII for the first time and may say the same thing years from now.
4. I rarely find characters annoying in the FF series. One reason is because I think camp is a pretty core part of the overall series. Even if a character does annoying things or comes off whiny, it doesn't bother me much. I guess living in Japan gives me more of a tolerance for the overly energetic or cutesy type of characters. I find some of them endearing.
Just want to note: I can talk about Final Fantasy until I'm blue in the face. I'm one of those apologists that will always find something good about each game in the series just because I will always buy whatever they put out. Except Dirge of the Cerberus. Meh.
1. My point about giving what I call "Bioware Choices" is that many players enjoy being able to actually make a difference in what happens to their characters. If you had a Final Fantasy that functioned like Mass Effect or Knights of the Old Republic, in which you could go the more Paragon/Light Side (good), neutral, or Renegade/Dark Side (bad) routes, it would offer higher replay value and allow you to try different things with the storylines. I figure if Bioware can do this, why can't Square Enix? You could even have job systems like in Tactics and other games, that are restricted according to what path you take. For example, if you get a certain number of Paragon points, you can make a Paladin, while if you get a certain number of Renegade points you can make a Dark Knight. Some jobs wouldn't be restricted by your moral choices, but maybe a FF2 style or Skyrim style of whatever skills you use allows you to open new jobs. (If you use lots of magic, you can become a Black or White Mage, if you are a bruiser you can be a Warrior or Berserker.) I just think doing something like that could open up so many new horizons and still have the Final Fantasy style that everyone loves.
2. Chrono Trigger, like you said, is probably closest to this that exists in the Square Enix universe. Maybe Chrono Cross (I didn't play it enough to know?) You can actually complete the game without certain characters (same in FFVI) if you want. I thought that was a really cool added feature. Being able to fight Lavos whenever you wanted to was really cool. I couldn't think of any other game that allowed me to fight the last boss at the beginning of the game. That's one reason Chrono Trigger is often regarded as one of the best RPGs ever. I believe some people play RPGs because they like "role-playing." Meaning they want to create characters, forge their own story if they can, and see what happens when they interact with others.
3. Final Fantasy IX ranks pretty high for me, but still below VI and IV. I'd say it's in my top 5. For me, I like the quirkiness of it and how it didn't take itself so seriously. After VIII, it was a definite breath of fresh air. I personally think XIII is terribly underrated. I see so many people bash the living hell out of it, but looking back in several years, I believe it'll be more widely known as not being as bad as some hardcore fans make it out to be. It's definitely not my favorite, but I liked it. Perhaps VIII has that same effect now. It was widely seen as a disappointment after the stellar VII (in my top 5), but has since formed its own fan base which I've noticed is primarily people in their twenties who played it as their first Final Fantasy. There are many 14 and 15 year olds who are playing XIII for the first time and may say the same thing years from now.
4. I rarely find characters annoying in the FF series. One reason is because I think camp is a pretty core part of the overall series. Even if a character does annoying things or comes off whiny, it doesn't bother me much. I guess living in Japan gives me more of a tolerance for the overly energetic or cutesy type of characters. I find some of them endearing.
Just want to note: I can talk about Final Fantasy until I'm blue in the face. I'm one of those apologists that will always find something good about each game in the series just because I will always buy whatever they put out. Except Dirge of the Cerberus. Meh.
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teacup
Auror
Of course.
By far my favorite.
I think I'll play Tactics, X or V next.
Zero Angel
Auror
It's hard to reply to everything, so I'll just do my patented "Phil List."
1. My point about giving what I call "Bioware Choices" is that many players enjoy being able to actually make a difference in what happens to their characters. If you had a Final Fantasy that functioned like Mass Effect or Knights of the Old Republic, in which you could go the more Paragon/Light Side (good), neutral, or Renegade/Dark Side (bad) routes, it would offer higher replay value and allow you to try different things with the storylines. I figure if Bioware can do this, why can't Square Enix? You could even have job systems like in Tactics and other games, that are restricted according to what path you take. For example, if you get a certain number of Paragon points, you can make a Paladin, while if you get a certain number of Renegade points you can make a Dark Knight. Some jobs wouldn't be restricted by your moral choices, but maybe a FF2 style or Skyrim style of whatever skills you use allows you to open new jobs. (If you use lots of magic, you can become a Black or White Mage, if you are a bruiser you can be a Warrior or Berserker.) I just think doing something like that could open up so many new horizons and still have the Final Fantasy style that everyone loves.
2. Chrono Trigger, like you said, is probably closest to this that exists in the Square Enix universe. Maybe Chrono Cross (I didn't play it enough to know?) You can actually complete the game without certain characters (same in FFVI) if you want. I thought that was a really cool added feature. Being able to fight Lavos whenever you wanted to was really cool. I couldn't think of any other game that allowed me to fight the last boss at the beginning of the game. That's one reason Chrono Trigger is often regarded as one of the best RPGs ever. I believe some people play RPGs because they like "role-playing." Meaning they want to create characters, forge their own story if they can, and see what happens when they interact with others.
3. Final Fantasy IX ranks pretty high for me, but still below VI and IV. I'd say it's in my top 5. For me, I like the quirkiness of it and how it didn't take itself so seriously. After VIII, it was a definite breath of fresh air. I personally think XIII is terribly underrated. I see so many people bash the living hell out of it, but looking back in several years, I believe it'll be more widely known as not being as bad as some hardcore fans make it out to be. It's definitely not my favorite, but I liked it. Perhaps VIII has that same effect now. It was widely seen as a disappointment after the stellar VII (in my top 5), but has since formed its own fan base which I've noticed is primarily people in their twenties who played it as their first Final Fantasy. There are many 14 and 15 year olds who are playing XIII for the first time and may say the same thing years from now.
4. I rarely find characters annoying in the FF series. One reason is because I think camp is a pretty core part of the overall series. Even if a character does annoying things or comes off whiny, it doesn't bother me much. I guess living in Japan gives me more of a tolerance for the overly energetic or cutesy type of characters. I find some of them endearing.
Just want to note: I can talk about Final Fantasy until I'm blue in the face. I'm one of those apologists that will always find something good about each game in the series just because I will always buy whatever they put out. Except Dirge of the Cerberus. Meh.
Fully agree on #1, now that I understand more of what you meant. This sounds like a good mix that I'm surprised they don't try more of (especially after the success of games like Skyrim and how less and less popular FF seems to be getting).
I may sound like I'm being harsher than I intend. I have never played a FF single-player main entry that I didn't like other than FF the first. And that was probably only because I had no freaking clue what I was doing or what to do. I was also much younger and had been spoiled by DragonQuest 1 - 3 (Dragon Warrior here).
I do enjoy my time with FFIX and I don't hate the characters. I just don't feel like they became a part of my soul in the same way other characters in other entries did.
Eiko was just a spoiled brat though. She gets better, but sheesh she's a jerk. Nothing to do with being cute. Maybe I'm misremembering.
What was your favorite skills/leveling system?
If you can get your hands on the PSP version of Tactics, it's the definitive version in my opinion. The translation is way better and the cut scenes are a nice addition. Plus, Luso and Balthier rock.
Sparkie
Auror
While we're on the subject (sort of), I'd like to say something about the little black mage. IMO, not only is Vivi the best part of that game, he may be the best single character in the series bar none (Sephiroth be damned). I enjoyed his part immensely, and I'd still like to see more of him in a future game (which will never happen).
(Did I use enough parentheses in this post? No?)
Zero Angel
Auror
You know, I'm not sure I can disagree with you there. I haven't played VI, so I can't speak to those characters, but of every FF I've played, included gaiden entries, he may be the single best character period. It was heartbreaking to watch his story.
I mean, Cloud's story arc was amazing also, but I'm not sure I really understood everything that happened in the game until years later through reading and experiencing the other FFVIIs. It could have been because I was so young, but I think there were some issues with the writing as well. If those were fixed, then it may be that Cloud unseats Vivi for me.
I would say with main characters, Cloud's story and development is by far the best with Tidus and Cecil close behind. If we include gaiden entries, then Ramza's tale was great, and I really enjoyed the progression of Squall's character in VIII. Vaan's story...oh wait, there wasn't one, and other than growing up slightly, he never really matured much either.
In terms of love interest characters, Rinoa and Tifa are tied for me. Tifa's loyalty and doing what she believed in even when she couldn't count on Cloud was always amazing, and Rinoa's persistence to crack the shell of Squall was great. I never really thought that Rosa did too much and like I've said several times, I never played VI so I can't speak to those characters. I didn't really care for Yuna as a love interest character.
Here's my list of "Most Well-Done Characters"
- Vivi
- Cloud
- Tifa
- Aerith
- Cecil
- Squall
- Red XIII
- Kain
- Yuffie
- Yuna (not as a love interest, but in general)
- Quistis
- Rinoa
- Dagger
- Vincent
- Cid (of VII)
- Freya
- Auron
- Baasch
- Thread starter
- #50
My favorite leveling system would either be FFX or FFVII. I just really liked the flexibility Materia gave your characters. And I enjoyed X's system because you could have more control of what skills you wanted to pick for you character. I liked XIII's system as well because it was similar. However, I also have to give a nod to the skill system in FFVI. I just liked how each character had a specific skill (Blitz, Swordtech, etc.) and you could build up their magic by attaching Espers to them. FFIV had a similar style as far as giving unique skills to certain characters.
teacup
Auror
Completely agree, as you could probably tell by my avatar/profile pic. I also loved how he doubled very nicely with Steiner.
@Phil, though I loved FFIX's system (albeit very simple) I think VII's was better, solely because of the limitations of the materia slots. I spent a long time assigning the materia to which characters I want each time, and loved it.
- Thread starter
- #52
I don't tend to promote my blog on here, but I wrote about Final Fantasy XV and was wondering if any of you Final Fantasy Fanatics could share some input about that upcoming game. I personally think it's a great step in the right direction for the series, but I can see some old school purists don't like the shift away from turn-based style to a more action RPG style popularized by Elder Scrolls or Kingdom Hearts as of late.
Philip Overby's Fantasy Free-for-All: Fantasy Gaming: Final Fantasy 15 Thoughts
Philip Overby's Fantasy Free-for-All: Fantasy Gaming: Final Fantasy 15 Thoughts
Zero Angel
Auror
I remember being excited about FF Versus back in my senior year of undergrad. That was in 2007.
Wow.
I can't wait to watch the video, but your commentary was interesting, and I thought you did a good job with the classic references. I especially liked the meteo bit.
I don't have a problem shifting away from turn-based, but I am very worried that the story may be cliched. I don't feel that they usually end up with bad storylines in their games, but I present "Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within" as the last time I watched them try to be more mainstream.
Still, I am hoping that the long production time will have resulted in a great story. Like you, I am devastated that I will have to wait in order to play. But well, I actually just got XIII-2 (technically I won't get it for another month) and I still need to finish a couple of the older games (IX and X-2).
(Aside: You live in Japan and can't speak Japanese? How's that work?)
Wow.
I can't wait to watch the video, but your commentary was interesting, and I thought you did a good job with the classic references. I especially liked the meteo bit.
I don't have a problem shifting away from turn-based, but I am very worried that the story may be cliched. I don't feel that they usually end up with bad storylines in their games, but I present "Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within" as the last time I watched them try to be more mainstream.
Still, I am hoping that the long production time will have resulted in a great story. Like you, I am devastated that I will have to wait in order to play. But well, I actually just got XIII-2 (technically I won't get it for another month) and I still need to finish a couple of the older games (IX and X-2).
(Aside: You live in Japan and can't speak Japanese? How's that work?)
- Thread starter
- #54
Thanks!
Yeah, from what I've gathered of the story, it looks like a Romeo and Juliet style story. Which could be cool for a FF game. I have a feeling the story won't be as convoluted and some of the recent entries. At least I hope so anyway. I like a more concrete story myself.
Well, I work here as an English teacher, so it's kind of a bubble I live in so to speak. I do speak enough Japanese to get by, but I can't understand the vast majority of things I hear. Plus, my wife is Japanese so she handles a lot of the more complicated issues for us. I really need to study more, but just other things are more interesting to me at the moment.
Yeah, from what I've gathered of the story, it looks like a Romeo and Juliet style story. Which could be cool for a FF game. I have a feeling the story won't be as convoluted and some of the recent entries. At least I hope so anyway. I like a more concrete story myself.
Well, I work here as an English teacher, so it's kind of a bubble I live in so to speak. I do speak enough Japanese to get by, but I can't understand the vast majority of things I hear. Plus, my wife is Japanese so she handles a lot of the more complicated issues for us. I really need to study more, but just other things are more interesting to me at the moment.
Daeldalus
Dreamer
1. FF XII - I admit that Vaan may be the worst MC to ever grace a FF title but the rest is amazing. the scope of the world, the politics and the battle system were all top class. plus the game had the best side quests of any FF game.
2. FF VII - Classic, great story, great characters, great battle system - enough said
3. FF V - many people overlook this game. good cast, great classic system, and plenty to do without ever getting boring
4. FF X - everything has been already said about this. weird MC, enveloping story and plenty of reason to keep playing. Oh and Blitzball is awesome.
5. FF VI - Kafka is the best villain in the FF world. battle system was a bit constrictive but the story made you forget the small bad things in the game.
only FF XII makes my all time rpg top five.................................... Earthbound is #1 argument over.
2. FF VII - Classic, great story, great characters, great battle system - enough said
3. FF V - many people overlook this game. good cast, great classic system, and plenty to do without ever getting boring
4. FF X - everything has been already said about this. weird MC, enveloping story and plenty of reason to keep playing. Oh and Blitzball is awesome.
5. FF VI - Kafka is the best villain in the FF world. battle system was a bit constrictive but the story made you forget the small bad things in the game.
only FF XII makes my all time rpg top five.................................... Earthbound is #1 argument over.
Zero Angel
Auror
I think most people overlook V because it wasn't released in America.
Aside: I loved my time with Earthbound and it is definitely in my top 5 SNES games (if not top 3 along with Chrono Trigger and Super Mario RPG), but everything I hear about other entries in this series makes me glad that there's not more Mother in America to ruin my memories of this game.
Daeldalus
Dreamer
I completely agree. I played mother 3 and stopped halfway mainly because it wasn't enough like earthbound for me and chrono trigger rules
- Thread starter
- #58
So I proposed this idea in another group, but what would you personally like to see in Final Fantasy 16? It's years from being released obviously, but must already be in the early stages of development. If you could tell Square Enix what you want to see in this game (most likely for Xbox One PS4) what would you want to see?
teacup
Auror
I personally want it to be more like the older games, like IX, but of course I would say that
When I played XIII it didn't feel like Final Fantasy to me. I want that changed. I want it closer to how it used to be - and yes, I want turn based to come back.
- Thread starter
- #60
I like turn based myself, but I don't see them returning to that unless they make a FF for a handheld system like the Vita. I'm more concerned about the gameplay and storylines being interesting than anything else. More on this later.
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