How do you manage important story information?

[pmmg]

I put it wherever i can fit it in sometimes. I like as early as possible. Makes it seem cooler that something mentioned early played a big role later.

 

[Mad Swede]

I love this discussion. Am reading up on it with great interest.

I wonder if I could add a little bit of a follow-up quesiton, which is: when do you place information? Howmany sentences, pages or chapters before X plays a key role in a scene, do you introduce the reader to the fact that X's exist in your world? (X could be types of magic, creatures, particular spells or important lore...)

I find that in writing my first draft, the answer often is: one chapter. But that's because of the writing process: I make it up as I go along. Come the rewrite, I'll have to sit down and think about how best to introduce the elements. Sometimes, one chapter may indeed be the final answer. In many ways, I like: it's fresh in a reader's mind while still feeling new and exciting, and immediately it turns out that X wasn't just introduced to fill pages, no: it really makes the story turn another way.

Still, one chapter can't always be the right answer.

I wonder if you guys have any thoughts on that.

Yes, I do have a few thoughts on that. As A. E. Lowan writes, this is about how we signpost something important

For me, when the the information is dropped depends on the overall story structure and how I've set things up. It usually isn't close to where the thing becomes key to a scene or event, because to me that is all too contrived and so is very obvious to the reader. To take an example from my first published book, the love interest turns up in the ninth chapter. The name of this person is brought to the protagonists mind in the second chapter after the protagonist reads a reward notice, but the idea that a reward notice is usually pinned to a wall for the public to read is introduced (as seen in passing by another character) in the prologue... Using that as a set-up, I could then add other small scenes to the intervening chapters where the two caught glances of one another without knowing it, and where the two could develop their interior thoughts about life and love without it being contrived. So when the two finally met, it just happened...

Although my novels and short stories are intended to be read standalone, they are all linked. That means I can also have signposting between stories. This works too, but I'm well aware that it can't be the only signposting of a key event or thing since the reader may not have read the other book (most of them have, but still...). In my view signposting across books like that can add a lot of depth to the overall setting, but it needs a bit of care when I create the whole trail of breadcrumbs which lead to this key scene.

 

[Incanus]

Good question, Diana Silver. Thanks for chiming in. When indeed?

What I've tried to do, especially when I realize I should have brought in some info into chapters I've already revised, is to look for the place that the info would most naturally arise, or be discussed. Then, if I'm adding it in right, it should feel like it flows with everything else. Sometimes that might be nearer to the scene in which it becomes important, but sometimes not. That's been my guiding principle, though it remains to be seen if I'm getting that right.

The last thing I want is for something to be just shoved in any old place: "Oh, and by the way, Bob-- **big unrelated info dump**" Non-sequiturs are the enemy of good exposition.

 

[skip.knox]

Timing is indeed important. So is quantity--how much space you devote to the topic--and so is the actual handling. That is, is it introduced with hardly more than a name? Is there an sentence-worth of description? A paragraph? Is the description matter-of-fact or does it wax poetic? All these things signal to the reader the author's assessment of its importance.

None of which, btw, guarantees the damn reader is going to remember. Despite our every best effort, there's going to be some reader who never saw *that* coming!

One other thing about timing, and that's repetition. Mentioning the MacGuffin once in Chapter Two, even if done at some length, is not at all the same as having it brought up again in Chapters Three, Five and Six. If I really want to make sure the reader remembers that the MacGuffin is blue and of dwarf-make, I'll make that part of the initial description, but I'll also try to find a way to mention just that much again in Chapter Six, so that in Seven I can have the MC cry "I've found the MacGuffin!"

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I'm deep in the "Info only when needed to understand what's happening right then" camp. I'm also really lazy and I hate writing exposition, so it works well for me to leave information like breadcrumbs. And damn skippy they lead to a house made of candy. By the end of this series I may eat that house all by myself. Dedicating the last book to Hershey's and Frito Lay.

But seriously - don't get used to this - I find that readers retain information better if it's short. Then, by the time all that signposting pays off, they get to enjoy a twist that they only now can see it was coming. I love that.

We've got a deus ex machina running around the city. No body's spotted it, yet, but when they do it's going to be almost as good a payoff as the blue brick joke. And like Skip says, timing is crucial, much like humor. That takes practice but it's well worth the effort to be able to add that to your creative toolbox.

 

[Sygan m]

Hi!
What works for me is an outline, even though I am what some may call a "pantser". I only keep the outline (a vague outline of the main and most important events that the reader needs to know) and read it all the way through before each writing session (it does not take too long, since I keep it short).

 

[Prince of Spires]

I wonder if I could add a little bit of a follow-up quesiton, which is: when do you place information? Howmany sentences, pages or chapters before X plays a key role in a scene, do you introduce the reader to the fact that X's exist in your world? (X could be types of magic, creatures, particular spells or important lore...)

3 seems to be the magical number that's usually given...

As in, if you want a character to have power X at the climax they say you should have the character use (or try to use) it 3 times. Or reference some important piece of lore or information 3 times.

It's of course only a guideline, and one I expect to come from TV / movies, where you need to be a lot more economical while you can also count on the viewer to have seen the whole thing in 45 minutes to 3 hours. So if you're writing a 300k epic fantasy, then maybe go above 3, while a 2k word short probably only needs 1 reference.

 

[ThinkerX]

In 'Labyrinth War,' I went with chapter headers that offered clues about that chapter's contents. One header was a 'quote' from a fake history describing wizards being persecuted, and the POV character for that chapter was one of those wizards. Another header was a journal excerpt about explorers lost in a giant, shifting labyrinth - and the POV for that chapter was in the same situation.

 

[Rexenm]

We've got a deus ex machina running around the city. No body's spotted it, yet, but when they do it's going to be almost as good a payoff as the blue brick joke.

I’ve got a cat running around the house, trying to climb up anything made of cotton.

 

[Diana Silver]

I'd like to add that "religion" is a relatively modern concept. People who practiced religion, throughout most of history, didn't think of it as religion. They were doing philosophy, or even just politics, or they viewed themselces as a part of a worship cult - the object of worship being a true and sensible part of reality.

So if you're thinking of a god 'of religion', I would tweak it more to the time itself. I'd say that a god of worship, or a god of sacrificial practices, or a patron god of priesthood... sound a whole lot more in line with the thinking of ancient peoples.

 

[Devor]

People have already covered the basics. My first reaction was the same as Prince of Spires. "Character voice" already comes with an incredible amount of artistic license. Most people don't even think in words, let alone have opinionated descriptions running through their heads. So see if you can use that license to explain what you need to explain. It might feel forced to you, but if you do it right it won't to readers.

But I also want to talk about this:

So far, I have avoided scenes with characters going through a morning routine, or sitting down to dinner, or other ‘quiet’ moments.

Morning routines and dinner times aren't great examples of this, but "quiet moments" can be very important for letting your readers connect with your characters. These are moments where the plot can be put aside and the character gets to feel like a normal person. Having them can help your readers care more, and feel more, about what happens to the character during the plot. And if a scene has a "Rule of 2" - that is, where every scene has to develop two things for your story, either character, or plot, or worldbuilding, or theme, then those quiet moments can be also be a great opportunity to drop a piece of lore.

Then again....

Another analogy: If a medieval world has been set up, and a battle ensues, and then one character pulls out a gun and shoots an enemy, I think the reader would be rightly disappointed, frustrated, and would feel cheated. I have something similar-ish going on.

...I literally did this in a short story and it worked just fine.

 

[Incanus]

Thanks, Devor. It's always good to have your thoughts on subjects like these. I think you have a good grasp on much of what makes fiction work.

For my WIP, this kind of info management is the single hardest thing to get right. At least in Act I. I think this will be best solved with multiple revisions to this section.

Then, after I've attempted to include everything I think should be there, I'll have a few readers look at it. I'm sure they can help me address the areas I didn't do so well with at that point.

License with character voice? Yes, I could probably use more of that. Good point. Indeed, I need every trick in the book, and maybe a few new ones, to pull all this off.

And I think I misspoke earlier--I do have a few 'quiet moments' in the story, and they are useful for including more info/lore. I am cramming it in here, there, and everywhere else I can think of, but it turns out I still need quite a bit more.

OK, to end on a positive note--I can do this. Especially with a little help from my good writer friends------

 

[Devor]

I'm sure you'll nail it, Incanus.

 

[JBCrowson]

In 'Labyrinth War,' I went with chapter headers that offered clues about that chapter's contents. One header was a 'quote' from a fake history describing wizards being persecuted, and the POV character for that chapter was one of those wizards. Another header was a journal excerpt about explorers lost in a giant, shifting labyrinth - and the POV for that chapter was in the same situation.

I love in-world quotes as chapter headings, and have used them in my book. As well as being some of my favourite lines, there are some easter eggs in there for readers who don't just skim over them. For example the inciting incident in the book is a relatively minor accident from which consequences snowball. The chapter heading for chapter one where it happens is:
"Which pebble tumbled first, history never recalls, only which villages the landslide destroyed."
--Salastin, historian of Uppiria.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I’ve got a cat running around the house, trying to climb up anything made of cotton.

I will see your hyper kitteh and raise you complete havoc and mayhem: The Shakespeare Sisters, Regan, Portia, and Viola.