How much is too much?

[Caged Maiden]

I've never read YA, but when I was 16 or so, I began getting really really into White Wolf's Werewolf game, and the thing about that is, that it's really intense, with loads of detail, and we ate it up! I would say that more important than dumbing it down is making it fun, realistic, and intense, because young people respond to those strong emotions. I'm not sure whether the science you are going into is hard to understand, but there have been loads of great suggestions on this thread. If you were interested in the science, I say write it in how you like it and then ask some young people to read it and see if it is at their level or whether it bores them. Kids are pretty smart, and they're probably smarter now than when I was young (with computers and smart phones within reach at all times... )

 

[Rikilamaro]

I've never read YA, but when I was 16 or so, I began getting really really into White Wolf's Werewolf game, and the thing about that is, that it's really intense, with loads of detail, and we ate it up! I would say that more important than dumbing it down is making it fun, realistic, and intense, because young people respond to those strong emotions. I'm not sure whether the science you are going into is hard to understand, but there have been loads of great suggestions on this thread. If you were interested in the science, I say write it in how you like it and then ask some young people to read it and see if it is at their level or whether it bores them. Kids are pretty smart, and they're probably smarter now than when I was young (with computers and smart phones within reach at all times... )

Oh you're speaking to a WW RPGer. I used to hang out in their chat rooms all the time back in HTML days (which doesn't date me at all I'm sure.) It is intense.

Good suggestion. I have a niece or two i could probably rope into that.

 

[Steerpike]

Yeah White Wolf has some interesting games. I think they are now owned by CCP, the company that makes the Eve Online MMO, and who is working on a World of Darkness MMO.

Rikilamaro - one thing about the genetics angle is that the more information you provide, and the more in-depth you go on the explanation, the more the reader has a right to expect things to be scientifically accurate. So if you're going into high levels of details in terms of human genetics, and then making a leap to an implausible shape-shifting mechanism, I think it will hurt the story (and I'm not saying you are doing that, just making the point). If the shape-shifting involves a leap of plausibility, I think you're better off providing a small amount of underlying "scientific" rationale and leaving it at that. If you've hit on a really nice idea that fits in the science and can be presented in an engaging manner, then my feeling is that you can add as much science as you like.

 

[virtualmayham]

This is a good question. Those long lecture scenes kinda killed my first book, which is why it now lies in some dusty corner of my hard drive. Look, having a character just talk to another character and tell him about stuff get boring. What I try to do is slowly trickle out information to the reader. It's a skill I've worked on and worked on, I think its a pretty effective way to get information across. Remember, show, don't tell!

 

[Rikilamaro]

This is a good question. Those long lecture scenes kinda killed my first book, which is why it now lies in some dusty corner of my hard drive. Look, having a character just talk to another character and tell him about stuff get boring. What I try to do is slowly trickle out information to the reader. It's a skill I've worked on and worked on, I think its a pretty effective way to get information across. Remember, show, don't tell!

Kinda like a need to know basis? They don't need the textbook, they need the cliffnotes?

 

[BeigePalladin]

Kinda like a need to know basis? They don't need the textbook, they need the cliffnotes?

exactly this. unless something is a vital, vital part of the story - no matter how important it is to the world - you don't need to tell the reader, or else they'll get bored of rading explinations.

 

[shangrila]

Yeah, it's better to show. Whether that's in a scene or whatever, long conversations between characters explaining the entire backstory aren't really interesting and can become tedious for the writer, let alone the reader.

I think a part of good storytelling is keeping that kind of stuff vague enough to keep a reader engaged while not giving them enough so they feel like they know it all. You want them to keep keep wanting to read your novel.

 

[Steerpike]

Limiting details only to "need to know" isn't necessarily the best way to proceed, and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a published Fantasy work that follows that advice. Authors routinely impart information to the reader that isn't necessary to understand the story, but that breathes life in to the characters or the world. The trick is to find the balance between that and between just dumping information on the reader. Where that right balance is located will depend on you as the author.

 

[Rikilamaro]

Limiting details only to "need to know" isn't necessarily the best way to, and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a published Fantasy work that follows that advice. Authors routinely impart information to the reader that isn't necessary to understand the story, but that breathes life in to the characters or the world. The trick is to find the balance between that and between just dumping information on the reader. Where that right balance is located will depend on you as the author.

Thank you for your response.
The information is as acurate as it can be without there actually being a genetic variant for shape shifting in the real world. Or at least it is current with today's theories of the human genome. I want the science to make the reader believe it -could- happen. I am currently working on trimming it down to something that isn't a 'dump' of information, but still gets the important things into a conversation. I'll post it when I'm done, and maybe you can tell me if I achieve that balance.

 

[Steerpike]

The information is as acurate as it can be without there actually being a genetic variant for shape shifting in the real world. Or at least it is current with today's theories of the human genome. I want the science to make the reader believe it -could- happen. I am currently working on trimming it down to something that isn't a 'dump' of information, but still gets the important things into a conversation. I'll post it when I'm done, and maybe you can tell me if I achieve that balance.

It is intriguing to me. I have a story involving shape-shifters, and there is also a genetic basis.

I think the biggest hurdle is dealing with a rapid transition from human to animal form. You'd need extremely rapid activation and transcription of the shapeshifting genes to bring about a quick transformation, and the energy demands would be high it seems to me.

Fascinating topic.

 

[Rikilamaro]

It is intriguing to me. I have a story involving shape-shifters, and there is also a genetic basis.

I think the biggest hurdle is dealing with a rapid transition from human to animal form. You'd need extremely rapid activation and transcription of the shapeshifting genes to bring about a quick transformation, and the energy demands would be high it seems to me.

Fascinating topic.

It is a fascinating topic.
As far as transformation I was thinking perhaps the gene included a third variant on the cell metabolism. not aerobic or aneaerobic, but maybe something that breaks down hydrogen for more energy. This would leave them thirtsy, hypoglycemic, and possibly hyperkalemic. Almost like DKA, so the signs could be passed off to the world as poorly managed diabetes mellitus.
Thoughts?

 

[Steerpike]

That's an interesting idea, Rikilamaro. When you say 'break down hydrogen' do you mean the element itself is being broken down? That might be hard to handle in a biological organism, but I'm not sure. It makes me think of fission. It certainly would provide a great deal of energy.

One thing I was looking at was shifting the glycolysis pathway around somehow, to get more energy than the process normally produces. I'm not sure whether it is worth expending the effort on going into that much detail. So far, I am simply referring in general terms to gene activation and the like.

 

[Penpilot]

Getting info to a reader can be a tricky thing. One part of it is trimming it down to just the interesting parts. Second is finding the right context in which to reveal the information in an interesting way. For me, I like to camouflage the info within a conversation that's much more interesting. Have the characters talking/arguing over something like for example, a bad example, Starwars vs. Lord of the Rings and within that exchange have the information come out. Characters can say stuff like, "Chewbaca wasn't a wookie he was just Hans first wife with "genetic x" condition." or "The Orcs genetically don't make sense because (insert info here)" A TV show that does this a lot is Bones. They talk about their private lives as they examine dead bodies and insert the plot info in between.

 

[Rikilamaro]

That's an interesting idea, Rikilamaro. When you say 'break down hydrogen' do you mean the element itself is being broken down? That might be hard to handle in a biological organism, but I'm not sure. It makes me think of fission. It certainly would provide a great deal of energy.

One thing I was looking at was shifting the glycolysis pathway around somehow, to get more energy than the process normally produces. I'm not sure whether it is worth expending the effort on going into that much detail. So far, I am simply referring in general terms to gene activation and the like.

It does resemble fission a bit and I haven't worked out all of the metabolic pathways. I was thinking of having it happen in the renal caliculi instead of hepatically. That way the reabsorption of water would be increased, ADH levels would rise which may cause some glandular problems - but again mimics diabetes.

So you're going to rewrite the Kreb's cycle? Good luck with that. And probably for a YA level that much detail wouldn't be needed. I just need to know it for myself so that I can better understand the biological reactions my characters will have.

 

[Rikilamaro]

Getting info to a reader can be a tricky thing. One part of it is trimming it down to just the interesting parts. Second is finding the right context in which to reveal the information in an interesting way. For me, I like to camouflage the info within a conversation that's much more interesting. Have the characters talking/arguing over something like for example, a bad example, Starwars vs. Lord of the Rings and within that exchange have the information come out. Characters can say stuff like, "Chewbaca wasn't a wookie he was just Hans first wife with "genetic x" condition." or "The Orcs genetically don't make sense because (insert info here)" A TV show that does this a lot is Bones. They talk about their private lives as they examine dead bodies and insert the plot info in between.

Good thought process, John. Thank you for taking the time to respond. I love Bones.

 

[Penpilot]

Glad I could help. Yeah, Bones rocks.