How Much Lore is Too Much Lore?

[Svrtnsse]

I tend to think of my characters more as tokens I shuffle around or puzzle pieces that have to click into place to make the plot advance, rather than actual people. If this is the root of my problem I'm not sure how to fix it. I've been trying to capture more of that human element in my writing, but with little success.

What I've done recently is I've written a series of flash-fiction shorts about my character. After I got home from work I sat down for half an hour to an hour and knocked out around five hundred words of story about her. I don't have much of a plot in mind and I don't know where the story will lead - I'm just pantsing it.

Originally I had this grand plan about how this would allow me to put my character in interesting situations to see how she deals with them. It'd allow me to figure out her personality and her motivations.
It didn't work out like that.
It still works out though, only in a less dramatic fashion. Rather than putting Alene through the wringer in various agonizing ways, I'm just spending some time with her. I'm still getting to grips with who she is though, and I'm getting a feeling for how she sees the world.
Overall, I feel like it's working out very well for me.

I don't know how much time you have or want to give yourself for it, but if you do have the time, I'd recommend doing it. I've been at it for about three weeks now and have 15 shorts done (Werewolf On A Train - Wattpad - you can see them there for an idea of what they're about - they're pretty crap though, but may serve as an example of what I'm doing).
I also wrote a slightly longer post about it on my blog recently: Let’s Spend Some Time Together | s v r t n s s e

Also, writing these flash-fiction pieces helps me fill out her back story as well. Even though she's not experiencing any life changing events, I'm building up a collection of little details to add to her memories.

 

[X Equestris]

I have to second the idea of using short stories and the like to flesh out characters.

 

[Mindfire]

One of the big ways to do that is to make him part of the cause of the big ol' plot. For instance, if monsters are invading the world, then he would be the one who drew the map that let the bad guys open the gate.

That would be difficult, considering that what caused the plot happened before he was born. It was his parents' fault. It may shed light upon the situation if I summarize:
My MC's dad, Seth, was a Jacob-type who pissed off his older brother and had to flee for his life. His mom, Ninuka, was a Disney Princess who Wanted More and left her home in the forest to explore the outside world, dragging along her younger adopted cousin, Kaya, for the ride. That's how they met. Ninuka's protective father was not pleased that his daughter decided to up and leave and sent people to bring her and Kaya back. Which they did, only to discover that she was pregnant with my MC. Ordinarily the punishment for such a grievous dishonor would be execution, but it is against Dakari law to kill the father of an unborn child, in the fear that the stress of the event may cause the mother to miscarry. So instead they were all banished, though they were permitted to stay long enough for Ninuka to give birth and recover. They couldn't go back to Seth's home for fear of his brother, so they ended up wandering until a series of events landed them in a foreign country, living as outlaws. The story begins when Reuben is older and receives word that his grandfather has died, making him heir to the throne. He then returns to claim it, which he can legally do since all of a Dakari ruler's decrees expire upon his death unless his successor chooses to uphold them.

 

[Mindfire]

As it stands, I think I'm trying for a kind of "searching for a home and an identity" angle with his motivation, since he's lived as an outlaw in a strange land his whole life. But that still doesn't feel quite personal enough. Maybe I need something besides his mother to emotionally connect him to this place he's never been. Perhaps a very vague early memory or feeling that he wants to recapture and thinks he will find there.

 

[Svrtnsse]

I think that searching for a home and an identity can be a very strong motivator in itself - especially if it's something you've never had and which you're imagining will solve all your problems and difficulties.

 

[Devor]

As it stands, I think I'm trying for a kind of "searching for a home and an identity" angle with his motivation, since he's lived as an outlaw in a strange land his whole life.

That kind of motivation has always struck me as a difficult one to do because it's so murky and hard to get my head around. With my characters I avoid that like the plague because I know I would just come across as rambly and aimless if I did it.

To me, I would want to give him a subplot about why he thinks he wants to go back that's more concrete and relevant to his life at present. At the very least, something like maybe he thinks if he gets the throne, he can set up trade routes that help will help the people he grew up with. Or else maybe punish them? But something tangible. Tangible things are easier to deal with.

 

[Svrtnsse]

Alene (my character), no longer has a home. The house she grew up in is still there and her parents still live in it, but it's not her home anymore. She can go there and visit, but she can't stay or settle down. She doesn't belong anymore.
At this stage in her development, this isn't going to be a major factor in her story. However, it's the kind of thing that's going to cause her to make bad decisions now and then.

 

[Mindfire]

That kind of motivation has always struck me as a difficult one to do because it's so murky and hard to get my head around. With my characters I avoid that like the plague because I know I would just come across as rambly and aimless if I did it.

To me, I would want to give him a subplot about why he thinks he wants to go back that's more concrete and relevant to his life at present. At the very least, something like maybe he thinks if he gets the throne, he can set up trade routes that help will help the people he grew up with. Or else maybe punish them? But something tangible. Tangible things are easier to deal with.

Well, he does gain a more tangible motivation in the second act, when he arrives at his ancestral home only to discover that it's in dire straits and he has to step up to defend it.

 

[ArenRax]

But that's not my problem at all. It's not distracting me from the story, per se. I'm not doing it just because I want to. It's not my focus, you know? But what happens is that I sit down to write, start getting into it, and then BAM! Lore idea pops into my head and of course I have to write it down because if I don't, it's gone forever. Yes, forever. I've lost things that way before and when I do I kick myself. But then because of the way my brain works, writing that idea down leads to another idea, and another, and another. On and on until finally the Muse decides that she's done having her way with me, assures me she had a great evening, and says we should do it again sometime before leaving for parts unknown. Once I finally recover from this, I look up and- lo and behold!- I have written page upon page of lore that of course needs to be sorted and categorized later, and the work I set out to do- the book- is yet undone. And this doesn't only happen while I'm writing. It happens everywhere. I keep Google Drive and Google Keep apps on my phone just so I can jot it all down wherever I am!

I am the same. If i do not write it down immediately ill become distracted and lose it forever.This still happens even when I write it down, I love to world build and I keep going until I'm confident that I have built up the structure/plot of the story. Even then I will keep going just because I'm thinking of writing a book that basically explains the history of a character and what happened to them to make them the person they are. And everyone is right it is fun to world build.

 

[SeverinR]

I think the more you have established the less likely you will create something that fits to perfectly the requirement for your current story.
You can have endless worldbuilding, but you should only include what is needed for the current scene of your story.
You might have majestic alp-like mountains with prancing unicorns and morning rainbows, but if the story is half a world away, going into much detail doesn't help the story your telling.

Maybe a Steven King type Cameo (from another book) occasionally might be interesting, but it can't detract from your current story to much.
The more you know about your world the easier it is to tell your tale without having to create on the fly. Creating on the fly is difficult to give substance later on. You create with little thought and then try to justify what you created.

 

[Caged Maiden]

Okay, I need to begin with the disclaimer that I'm a notorious non-world-builder. I know, I know, some people can't relate. But that doesn't mean my point is invalid. Here's my point, now that that is out of the way.

I try to outline, honestly. I begin with a character usually, and put them into a place and situation. In your Finding A Home scenario, this would be for me, a character actively doing something about their bigger problem, say running from their home and joining a guild or living as a bard, or whatever. I know you can't do that in your story. Anyways, my point is that by taking the focus off the too-big problem and making the focus the smaller problems (imminent starvation, the winter chill in a campground, a disease in the local water supply, bear attack, etc.) you can close the big door slowly while the MC worries about smaller problems. That IS story. When talking in regards to lore or history, or politics, that IS NOT story. So it's tough to put a lot of effort into notes and a sort of world-building folder, where those elements may never be used.

HOWEVER, by knowing all that stuff, say the geography of the whole area, the kinds of people and their personal struggles, the politics and how it affects things like road tolls, travel passes, guards, general road safety, fighting between regional nobles (that often led to crop-burning, peasant-slaying, and famine, etc.), beasts of the wildlands, weather, clothing, I mean, I could go on and on.

If you know your background information, you can write quickly and consistently. That's always a benefit. Nothing's worse than having to look back at what you wrote in the first chapter because you don't remember what your cathedral looks like. Did it have parapets? Was it granite or marble? How tall was it again? OMG, this is my life when writing. I never write anything down HAHA!

Anyways, as far as lore, which for this example I'm going to assume does not affect the story? i think the concept is a double-edged knife. If you draft a ton of historical and religious material, say, you're (all writers) are inclined to make it part of the story. And soon you end up with confusing (and sorry, but uninteresting) segments like:

MCs are getting ready to do something like storm a keep and they have a discussion about politics or myth regarding the structure or who owned it and may have cast spells in the last century. (guilty of this)

A forest flight from danger becomes an enchanted dream as the MCs stumble on some relic from the last age, hidden in a place no one would look because it's forgotten and now they have to do something with it. (still can't believe I did it)

Some long lost descendant of whomever (*cringe* I'm guilty of this one too) needs to hear all about their lineage to continue on in some direction prescribed by a wiser, older person. being who knows best. (yeah, I did that)

etc.

Lore can harm a book, plain and simple. If you world-build for the benefit of your stories, there's no harm in exploring deeper elements of the world, the people, and their history. If, however, those elements become substitutions for a MC with an immediate goal and the characters he relates to, then the story becomes second to the world.

Tim said 15% of the world-building went into the story. If I did that, readers would probably imagine my characters on green screen, no lie. But I think that's probably a fair figure. When I look over my notes for some of the stories, I used about 15% in the actual "history lesson" parts (discussions about how this happened, where it came from, who those people are, how the kingdom fell, etc.).

I tend to make a lot of it up on the fly, like when I see I need to explain something. Mostly I do that through characters: "Go tail those guys." "Why?" "That one's a priest I've had my eye on a while and he's talking to a loan shark who knows my face. You have to do it, I can't." "Fine, I'll go listen in on their conversation, but I don't know what I'm listening for." "Anything, especially if it relates to the upcoming tribunal. I've heard rumors they've got six priests in the dungeon and plan to burn them for working with the foreign prince."

I think it's okay to put the world-building work in, but when the information comes out, it has to be three things:

Relevant

Interesting

Plot-driving


History lessons make readers cringe. I remember in my second book I wanted to bring a bunch of dwarves from their new home back to their ancestral temple underground. (Don't judge me, haha) So I had all this mythology I planned to intersperse in the story, things like rites, statues that held magical secrets--each with dwarf-language chants, OMG, I can't even remember, but there were loads of them. It was awful, looking back. I haven't read the story since 2006 or whatever, but I'm sure it's worse than I remember.

Anyways, with lore/ history/ politics/ religion, tread carefully. Readers want to experience those things through the character filter. If you present it as a narrator or in what feels like a false way, it'll read slow and unwieldy.

 

[Jabrosky]

I do think there's a potential trouble sign here. It sounds like you are more interested in the backstory than you are in the story. So long as that condition holds, you run the risk of *writing* more backstory than story.

For myself, this usually means I have not invested enough of myself in the characters. They simply aren't as interesting to me as the geography or history or details of some cult. And that, in turn, often means it's because I haven't got enough conflict going on, the stakes for my characters aren't high enough. In short, it's like I started to watch a drama but it was boring so I switched over to the History Channel.

I'm not saying this is the case for you. I'm just relating my own experience, in case it sparks useful thoughts.

There's a good point raised here, and I agree that every story needs characters to act against the backdrop you build. But in my own experience, deciding whether character or setting deserves more development can lead to a chicken-and-egg dilemma.

I see plot, character, and setting as three axes of story development which are together intertwined to the extent that settling on a starting point can be a challenge. The needs of your characters and plot can affect what you put into your world, but the converse can also apply in that setting can influence characters' development and plot possibilities. People grow up with values mostly reflecting their family and surrounding culture, and certain events that can spark plots are more likely to happen in certain environments. Perhaps you can choose any of the three axes as your starting point for storytelling, but you can't ignore how the other two affect it.