Is it possible to become a writer without having the best English education?

[Codey Amprim]

And I think that's the signal for the closing of this thread. Just kidding. Great discussion so far. I'd really appreciate if anyone could tell me of their experience of English at school. Did you learn the more complex aspects of English grammar, or are you in a similar situation as me? Have you done most of your learning online?

Edit: I just want to clarify that I am a native English speaker. I just get the feeling that my posts might sound as if that is not the case.

For High School, since I'm guessing you completed it, my experience was a complete joke. There were three invisible "divisions" in the English department; the first was designated for the intelligence-lacking students, and they were the basic English 9-12; the second was College Prep, and I only took one year of it and absolutely hated it; lastly, the third division was Advanced English, and I heard from a close friend of mine that it was easier than the basic English classes.

My one year of college prep was terrible. It was all about memorizing speeches and trying to outdo your classmates with projects, even if they said that spending more money was =/= to higher grade. The books were about as boring as watching my toenails grow, and we never got to any of the good books that were in the curriculum such as The Hobbit or Beowulf.I remember spending nearly half of the school year in English 11 on To Kill a Mockingbird, and it bored me to tears all the way up to the absent climax of the story.

My senior year I joined the school newspaper as a staff writer and eventually the Local/Regional/National Editor. It, too, was a joke. The teacher, who was one of my favorites till I took that class, was completely favored the women over the guys. So... the majority of the newspaper ended up about stuff like Justin Beiber, fashion, and how to make fruit salad (no joke). I could rant all day about this....

College, though, is a different story, and so far, that year of college prep still proves useless. It's had a professional feel to it especially in the classroom, and the writing assignments aren't as drudging as they were in high school for me. As I said in my post earlier in this thread, it's a lot more enjoyable - plus, I'm actually learning things again with writing and the use of the English language.

 

[Arcturus]

There's certainly a lot of elitism when it comes to having the "best English education".

As an English major, I'll probably get harpooned for saying this but I don't think it matters in the long run. Language isn't static and as long as your message is conveyed to other people in a meaningful, it should be fine. I mean, look at free verse poetry. It breaks all the rules and people still appreciate what the author has to say. While it helps to have a foundation of language, it shouldn't stop anybody from trying to write, just because they aren't the uptight know-it-all down the block.

 

[Xanados]

For High School, since I'm guessing you completed it, my experience was a complete joke. There were three invisible "divisions" in the English department; the first was designated for the intelligence-lacking students, and they were the basic English 9-12; the second was College Prep, and I only took one year of it and absolutely hated it; lastly, the third division was Advanced English, and I heard from a close friend of mine that it was easier than the basic English classes.

My one year of college prep was terrible. It was all about memorizing speeches and trying to outdo your classmates with projects, even if they said that spending more money was =/= to higher grade. The books were about as boring as watching my toenails grow, and we never got to any of the good books that were in the curriculum such as The Hobbit or Beowulf.I remember spending nearly half of the school year in English 11 on To Kill a Mockingbird, and it bored me to tears all the way up to the absent climax of the story.

My senior year I joined the school newspaper as a staff writer and eventually the Local/Regional/National Editor. It, too, was a joke. The teacher, who was one of my favorites till I took that class, was completely favored the women over the guys. So... the majority of the newspaper ended up about stuff like Justin Beiber, fashion, and how to make fruit salad (no joke). I could rant all day about this....

College, though, is a different story, and so far, that year of college prep still proves useless. It's had a professional feel to it especially in the classroom, and the writing assignments aren't as drudging as they were in high school for me. As I said in my post earlier in this thread, it's a lot more enjoyable - plus, I'm actually learning things again with writing and the use of the English language.

Count yourself lucky, my friend. I come from a place in the middle of nowhere. Back in school we had no such thing as school newspapers. It was bare-bones. There was nothing like that. It was a bunch of, pardon my French, degenerates -.-
Even when I use that harsh word I don't think you'll be able to understand. Things are different in small Scotland. We've got no clubs, communities or big fancy meetings. College is the same. College in Scotland is nothing like it in the US: we don't sleep in dorms, we go home. My college experience was almost worse than school. I would go in for about 6 hours, learn nothing, and then get the bus home. It was... absent of any structure. Most of the teachers didn't come in to the one class. That's right, we don't take loads of classes like in the US. I didn't "graduate" I just left of boredom.

I come from Scotland, where things aren't big and shiny.

Edit: The Beiber thing does sound pretty bad, though.

/Rant.

 

[Amanita]

Someone should tell people to stop complaining about the German educational system, compared to what I'm reading here, it's really good. I've almost always been happy at school. (Relatively, I was glad when the week was over too, of course. )
We started learning English in year 5 (at around 11 years). At the beginning, we've only done really simple things and we've gone through the grammer issues one at a time. I've done okay but not very well, till I was thirteen and started reading Harry Potter in English. From then on I've always been among the top students in English class without doing any work at all (besides reading fantasy ) Books did it. That's a bit of advice for every potential: Read no matter what, to get familiar with various ways to express yourself via language.
In year ten we started to read books in class as well, but mostly short, contemporary ones. In our last two school years, we read Death of a Salesman, Lord of the Flies, Macbeath and our exam book, "One language, many voices" (various short stories written by people from the British colonies.)

In German class we spent our first seven school years with spelling and grammer and writing various kinds of texts, in the six years after, we've spent most of the time reading and commenting on all kinds of stories, newspaper texts and so on.

In my opinion knowledge about and respect for the language are among the fundamental things that should be taught at any school, at least for the native language.

 

[Xanados]

Someone should tell people to stop complaining about the German educational system, compared to what I'm reading here, it's really good. I've almost always been happy at school. (Relatively, I was glad when the week was over too, of course. )
We started learning English in year 5 (at around 11 years). At the beginning, we've only done really simple things and we've gone through the grammer issues one at a time. I've done okay but not very well, till I was thirteen and started reading Harry Potter in English. From then on I've always been among the top students in English class without doing any work at all (besides reading fantasy ) Books did it. That's a bit of advice for every potential: Read no matter what, to get familiar with various ways to express yourself via language.
In year ten we started to read books in class as well, but mostly short, contemporary ones. In our last two school years, we read Death of a Salesman, Lord of the Flies, Macbeath and our exam book, "One language, many voices" (various short stories written by people from the British colonies.)

In German class we spent our first seven school years with spelling and grammer and writing various kinds of texts, in the six years after, we've spent most of the time reading and commenting on all kinds of stories, newspaper texts and so on.

In my opinion knowledge about and respect for the language are among the fundamental things that should be taught at any school, at least for the native language.

It's different when a foreign person is learning English. It's shameful when an English teacher from an English speaking country can't teach ENGLISH.

*Sigh*

 

[Sheilawisz]

A perfect knowledge of grammar (of any language) and storytelling talent are two different things with no connection between them.

 

[Ghost]

I don't have a direct question for you because I can answer it myself. My question would be, "can one be a writer if they haven't been taught the more difficult aspects of grammar?", but I already think one could. I know that there is a plethora of information available online, and I know that the amount to which we understand grammar varies greatly in this community. I was never taught things such as the "subordinate clause", "subjunctive" and "infinitive” when I was younger. Where you?

People can be writers regardless of how thoroughly they were taught grammar. Most of us read, so some of the rules and conventions get absorbed along the way. You can use infinitives in everyday conversations and writing and not know exactly what they are. I have a hell of a time understanding music theory. People can explain quarter notes and time signatures all they like, but it never clicks for me. But music makes sense when I hear it instead of looking at it broken down on paper. I think it's similar with language. Someone might not be able to explain grammar, but they naturally use things like the subjunctive mood and gerund phrases.

My English teachers lectured on "subordinate clauses" and such, but it was all hazy to me. I adore my high school English teacher, really, but my senior year of high school we reviewed capitalization of all things. I learned more in one semester of English Composition at college than I did in four years of high school. I suppose it depends on your teachers/professors. My professor didn't lecture us and move on; he made sure we connected with the concepts.

I find myself thinking shameful thoughts that I am a native English speaker and I do not know these rules. I am only 18 years old, but is that really any justification? I think that I have a decent amount of knowledge already, but what I want is to become a scholar in the art, someone who knows the language inside out. Or is that not necessary?

Although it's not necessary to become an English scholar, I think it's important to have pride in your work and learn what you can. Learning more about grammar helps me. Still, I don't think it's everything. Having more advanced tools at your disposal is helpful, but I can easily imagine a cook who doesn't understand how to harmonize flavors using appliances with all the bells-and-whistles to make a worse meal than a cook equipped a few cheap utensils. A better knowledge of grammar doesn't automatically help with pacing, tone, voice, etc. Work on the bits that worry you most, but don't let them hold you back or overwhelm you.

 

[gerald.parson]

Is it possible to become a writer without having the best English education?

Yes Xanados it is. And you are proof. Not only are you able to convey a clear message or question in all your posts, you also put a short story together on your blog that sucked me in hardcore. So hats off to you sir, you need not worry.

 

[Jess A]

Teach yourself grammar and actively 'notice' grammar and narrative structure in different types of writing when you are reading it.

 

[Xanados]

Yes Xanados it is. And you are proof. Not only are you able to convey a clear message or question in all your posts, you also put a short story together on your blog that sucked me in hardcore. So hats off to you sir, you need not worry.

Thank you, Gerald. I can't tell you enough how much I appreciate your compliment.

From what I have read so far, it would seem that the majority of us believe that the best English education is not needed. The matter is settled. Thank you.