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Lack of Diversity in My Stories?

You also say all your male characters are straight. Does that mean that you have gay female characters?

I have one lesbian character. She is the daughter of the eccentric billionaire I mentioned in my first post. I had two gay males (three if you count one minor character), I never finish the story where one of them is a central. I changed the plot where the second is a main character, and now his sexuality is irrelevant.
Trying to write a book that offends no one is about as productive as hunting a unicorn.

have no problems, offending some people, but I don't want to offend a lot of people. I will probably offend a lot people anyway. ( Regardless of character's sexuality)
 

Kazzan

Dreamer
I'm mostly writing straight characters. I'm unsure if I could do lesbian or gay characters justice, I'd probably do a passable job at it, but I have no experience with that. I dont personally know a single gay guy and only one lesbian in real life. Then again, in my own writing sexuality doesn't really come up that often.

As for sexual diversity, I dont think it is a necessity in a fantasy story. If you want to include diversity, it's fine, but dont force it in. If you do write a gay character, Make them respectable characters and not stereotypes. Also consider how it might inpact the story you are telling.
 

Russ

Istar
I have one lesbian character. She is the daughter of the eccentric billionaire I mentioned in my first post. I had two gay males (three if you count one minor character), I never finish the story where one of them is a central. I changed the plot where the second is a main character, and now his sexuality is irrelevant.


have no problems, offending some people, but I don't want to offend a lot of people. I will probably offend a lot people anyway. ( Regardless of character's sexuality)

I think your concerns about what having male gay characters will do to your potential sales among the religious, women and eccentrics are unfounded.
 

X Equestris

Maester
I have one lesbian character. She is the daughter of the eccentric billionaire I mentioned in my first post. I had two gay males (three if you count one minor character), I never finish the story where one of them is a central. I changed the plot where the second is a main character, and now his sexuality is irrelevant.


have no problems, offending some people, but I don't want to offend a lot of people. I will probably offend a lot people anyway. ( Regardless of character's sexuality)

If you already have a lesbian character, I think most of the people who would be offended by a gay character would also be offended by her. I know there's occasions where someone might hypocritically have no problem with lesbians but would with gay characters, but I don't think that is worth getting bothered over.
 
By lack of diversity I mean a lack of sexual diversity. To be more specific all male characters in all of my works are straight. And the reason for that is they are straight in my imagination.
I think that this actually has some advantages. Let me give some examples
- One of the main characters in my main WIP is a member of a persecuted minority religion. His religion is based on a real world religion. If I make him gay I would offend that religious group, which I deeply respect.
- Another character from a different WIP is very eccentric, if I make him gay I would offend a lot of eccentric straight people.
- I think adding a gay character will push away some streith/religios\conserative\female people from my books.
- I think adding sexual diversity limits other more important forms of diversity- mainly cultural diversity. This applies mainly to works set in our real world. Many cultures which exist on earth today aren't as tolerant of people with alternative sexuality as western society.
What do you think? Do you have sexual diversity in your story? Do you think adding sexual diversity will push away some people from your book?

edited- sorry for the typo in the title
I don't understand why you think adding gay people will push away girls. I am female and I am very pro-LGBTQ+, and I know a lot of other females who are too.
 
I spent a lot of time in LotR fandom, actually. :) But just working from the text, Sam goes home and marries Rosie, doesn't he? Though he could still be bisexual (which is also important to represent). But Legolas and Gimli, on the other hand...
I think Sam is bisexual. Here is a small paragraph that happens after Frodo wakes up in Rivendell:
At the moment there was a knock on the door, and Sam came in. He ran to Frodo and took his left hand, awkwardly and shyly. He stroked it gently and then blushed and turned hastily away.
 

A. E. Lowan

Forum Mom
Leadership
I'm mostly writing straight characters. I'm unsure if I could do lesbian or gay characters justice, I'd probably do a passable job at it, but I have no experience with that. I dont personally know a single gay guy and only one lesbian in real life. Then again, in my own writing sexuality doesn't really come up that often.

As for sexual diversity, I dont think it is a necessity in a fantasy story. If you want to include diversity, it's fine, but dont force it in. If you do write a gay character, Make them respectable characters and not stereotypes. Also consider how it might inpact the story you are telling.

For heaven's sake, make sure to not force in your heterosexual, characters of color, disabled characters, female characters who do nothing but fetch water and squeeze out babies, trans characters, etc. You know, the rest of humanity. Heaven knows what may happen? Reality? Piffle. We have talking cats. We don't need reality. We already have squishy babies with chosen swords.

In our first book, Faerie Rising, we managed to forget to have a straight, while, male, cis character. At all. What did it do to the plot? Nothing, since we didn't figure it out until after publication. Whoops.

So, yeah, Sir Ian McKellen made darn sure that Sam and Frodo were at least at the experimental phase of their relationship, and relationships between young men of different classes were a different experience when Tolkien was writing, so a little hand touch does not the beast with two backs make.

Where was I? Oh yeah... LGBTQ+ are people. first and foremost. Also, Do your homework. If you're afraid to write about us, you need to do a whole lot of reading about us. We're vicious aliens and god knows you might learn something.
 

Queshire

Auror
Fair warning; probably best to not expect a reply from the original poster considering that the thread is from 2015.

You know, reading this thread really makes me appreciate how far we've come since then.

I've said before that representation in media is at its best when it doesn't have to be searched for. Don't get me wrong, I'm the type of person that's both specifically picked up a work because I hear it has lgbt stuff in it and searched for new stuff by whether or not it has lgbt stuff. It hits differently when I pick up a story about werewolves (because werewolves are cool) and the primary male werewolf is both gay and that his love interest is our female werewolf protagonist's likely-Autistic brother.

As for my own stuff, well, I can't say that I don't have any cishet characters, but I have enough LGBT characters that they should probably be considered the default for any character that shows up.
 

A. E. Lowan

Forum Mom
Leadership
Fair warning; probably best to not expect a reply from the original poster considering that the thread is from 2015.

You know, reading this thread really makes me appreciate how far we've come since then.

I've said before that representation in media is at its best when it doesn't have to be searched for. Don't get me wrong, I'm the type of person that's both specifically picked up a work because I hear it has lgbt stuff in it and searched for new stuff by whether or not it has lgbt stuff. It hits differently when I pick up a story about werewolves (because werewolves are cool) and the primary male werewolf is both gay and that his love interest is our female werewolf protagonist's likely-Autistic brother.

As for my own stuff, well, I can't say that I don't have any cishet characters, but I have enough LGBT characters that they should probably be considered the default for any character that shows up.
Not sure if you're talking to me or to our new and welcome member who I'm sure accidentally necro'd the thread in the first place.
 

Chasejxyz

Inkling
I really wish OP said which religion they're writing about, because I can then give them examples of members of that religion that are openly queer. I'm Buddhist and my temple is one of the most welcoming groups I've ever met. I have an uncle who got married in a temple to a gay Jewish man. I have a very good book about a Muslim man who is coming to terms with both his son's homosexuality and his own not-straight-ness. Queer people exist in every religion, and there are spiritual communities in every religion that accept it. Just because Big Mormon says that being gay/trans is bad, doesn't mean that no Mormon spiritual community will ever accept and love their gay/trans congregants.

Also tbh it's kind of insulting to assume that any religious person is going to be offended by seeing A Gay in a piece of media. I grew up in a very atheist "If you believe in religion you are a dumb sheeple" household and people aren't like that at all. I didn't seek out a spiritual community for a long time because I thought every one would reject someone like me, since no ancient religious texts say "queer people are good, actually." The kind of people who would reject your story for having queer people in it are not the kind of people you want reading your story, anyways.
 

Miles Lacey

Archmage
My work in progress is set in a world where bisexuality is the sexual orientation of the vast majority of people, including the main character. The key reason for doing this isn't due to me being bisexual but because I wanted to see how bisexuality could potentially shape everything from religion to marriage to family life in this world.

When writing LGBT+ characters you are going to offend some people. In many countries your book will be banned, especially if it's a young adult book, so my advice is not to get worked up about it. Just focus on creating great characters who just happen to be LGBT+ and you'll do fine.
 
I think it's one thing if characters' sexual orientations are completely irrelevant to the story, and another if you're deliberately excluding LGBTQ characters. In the first instance, nobody's sexual orientation is being mentioned, described, or even hinted at, so for all the reader knows, every character could just as easily be LGBTQ as straight. It's another if you're deliberately making everyone cishet and acting like no other orientation even exists.

Now, the story could be set in a culture where everyone is presumed heterosexual and only heterosexual marriage is allowed. But that wouldn't mean nobody is LGBTQ, just that they aren't openly so.

Personally, I find it easiest to write sexuality, if it's relevant, from a heterosexual woman's point of view, because that's what I am. And I'm defining sexuality very broadly here: if a character has a crush on someone, that's sexuality, even if it goes no further than that. I can put people with other orientations in a story, but as far as their sexuality is concerned, it's probably going to be viewed through another character's eyes: the straight female character has friends who are in same gender relationships, for example. Maybe I'll try my hand at another kind of viewpoint eventually, but that's not what I've done so far.
 

Insolent Lad

Maester
I didn't seek out a spiritual community for a long time because I thought every one would reject someone like me, since no ancient religious texts say "queer people are good, actually.".

There have been cultures where it was traditional for shamans or priests to be gay or trans—cultures as diverse as the ancient Scythians and the Philippines. I've always intended to work that idea into a story someday if it would fit.
 

Chasejxyz

Inkling
There have been cultures where it was traditional for shamans or priests to be gay or trans—cultures as diverse as the ancient Scythians and the Philippines. I've always intended to work that idea into a story someday if it would fit.

Oh of course! Unfortunately, colonization happened, and you know how it goes.

How I look at it...if you choose to have all your characters be cis and heterosexual...you're hamstringing yourself and your worldbuilding. You're limiting yourself. "Gender based" magic systems are common enough, but someone who's nonbinary, transgender or intersex, what would their magic be like? Would they be incredibly powerful because they could use both kinds? Or it's a reason for your [A] character to be able to use [C] magic besides "they're the main character they get to be special." What if your king has a harem of men AND a harem of women, what would the political drama be like there? Or what if your queen regnant is poly and has multiple prince and princess consorts, what would succession be like there?

Historically, trans people would totally change their identity and move somewhere new and start their lives over, where no one would know they're trans (this was REQUIRED in the US up until a few decades ago in order to receive gender-confirming surgery). Sounds like a geat backstory for an adventurer, especially if your world is really gender role-y (the woman leading the rebellion is using advanced military tactics, she said she learned it from her husband but it doesn't seem to line up). Of course, they don't have to hide being transgender or it be seen as shameful, maybe there's a very large, open industry for transformation spells/potions/materials. I can go on and on coming up with world or story ideas that include queer characters because there's just so much and a lot of it has never been done before. But if everyone is cishet you're missing out on all this. In fantasy, anything is possible, so why would you limit yourself like that?
 
Oh of course! Unfortunately, colonization happened, and you know how it goes.

How I look at it...if you choose to have all your characters be cis and heterosexual...you're hamstringing yourself and your worldbuilding. You're limiting yourself. "Gender based" magic systems are common enough, but someone who's nonbinary, transgender or intersex, what would their magic be like? Would they be incredibly powerful because they could use both kinds?
Probably. That would make them two spirits. Once upon a time in certain parts of North America, female healers did one thing, male healers did another, and two spirit healers could do either or both.

I've personally observed that there are lots of LGBTQ folks in alternative healing fields, in our own time when such things aren't usually gendered. More than their representation in the general population would account for. Maybe that just reflects who I know, but I think there's a link.
 

A. E. Lowan

Forum Mom
Leadership
Probably. That would make them two spirits. Once upon a time in certain parts of North America, female healers did one thing, male healers did another, and two spirit healers could do either or both.

I've personally observed that there are lots of LGBTQ folks in alternative healing fields, in our own time when such things aren't usually gendered. More than their representation in the general population would account for. Maybe that just reflects who I know, but I think there's a link.
Personal story, not alternative medicine. My wife is severely chronically ill and developed viral meningitis. About a week in the hospital with her heart slowly shutting down due to a vagus nerve reaction (it just hurt so much it couldn't cope.) We had a nurse named Regene who was a transwoman, and this woman saved my wife's life by refusing to give her a medication that would slow her heart even further (at the time it was 27 beats per minute. Minute.) The resident hospitalist wanted Regene fired, but she stuck to her guns, and when cardio came in the next morning the kicked the hospitalist out and praised Regene for her bravery and tenacity. About two days later we found a cocktail that reduced the pain and we went home three days after that. I will never, ever, find enough good things to say about that woman who saved my wife's life in the middle of the night. And this is why we need to tell the stories that don't often get told.
 

pmmg

Myth Weaver
Well this is an old thread, I see no reason to dwell on it.

But in case they ever return to look....


- One of the main characters in my main WIP is a member of a persecuted minority religion. His religion is based on a real world religion. If I make him gay I would offend that religious group, which I deeply respect.

I doubt it. Many people in real world religions are gay. If you are trying to say something counter to faith, such as what if the Catholic Church supported gay unions, then yeah....you would probably offend them. But if there was a priest who was gay, no. (Secretly, A lot of priests are gay).

- Another character from a different WIP is very eccentric, if I make him gay I would offend a lot of eccentric straight people.

It should not. But people love to be offended. So...yes, some will be offended. So what? write the story you want.

- I think adding a gay character will push away some straight/religious\conservative\female people from my books.

Certainly. The world is full of all types and some will avoid this story for this reason.

- I think adding sexual diversity limits other more important forms of diversity- mainly cultural diversity. This applies mainly to works set in our real world.

Well...does not limit, but draws attention away from. If you weave it all together well, even that is a maybe. So what message do you want to send, and why add things that draw away from it. I think this falls along the lines of 'you cant please everyone', so please who you can.

Many cultures which exist on earth today aren't as tolerant of people with alternative sexuality as western society.


If by that you mean the story will not cross over into some other cultures as well... Well, I think that would be true of any story.

What do you think? Do you have sexual diversity in your story? Do you think adding sexual diversity will push away some people from your book?

I do not focus much on sexual diversity in my stories. I am uninterested in the subject. I do think adding such diversity would push people away. I am not sure I would care.

I think these stories and issues are important to some, and not important to others. I don't feel I need to tackle them to tell a good story.
 
I think Sam is bisexual. Here is a small paragraph that happens after Frodo wakes up in Rivendell:
At the moment there was a knock on the door, and Sam came in. He ran to Frodo and took his left hand, awkwardly and shyly. He stroked it gently and then blushed and turned hastily away.
Apparently the editors forced Tolkien to delete the next three pages...
 
Most of what I would say has already been said - write the story you want and be prepared to stand by it. If you can't stand by it then don't write it.

But there are other factors at work in the world these days, from a range of socio-political and psycho-sexual perspectives. While it is laudable, on the one hand, to include a diversity of characters in your story, there are those who will tear you to shreds if you include non-straight characters without due sensitivity and insight.

Obviously, the more important the character to your story, the more authentic that character needs to feel to the subcultures the character represents. Woe betide anyone who gets that wrong.

Having said that, I have certainly included non-straight characters in my stories - increasingly so - not so much because I want to make some cool woke statement. I do it simply because I will only be on this Earth so long and I want to explore these characters for myself. I want to vicariously understand, on some (probably inadequate) level how these characters operate. (I don't write erotica, but there is always sex in my stories.)

For example, in the half written sequel to my most successful novel, there is a lesbian fabliau. How the hell does a middle-aged straight white male write that story without offending just about everyone?

Well, the complex relationships suit the plot perfectly, so that reassures me. But I also have lots of beta readers - some of whom are lesbians - and I've plagued them with questions and reality checking.

So far so good, but this is a dangerous area these days.
 
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