Plot Driven VS character driven?

[Darkfantasy]

I suffer with autism so sometimes I find it hard to drum simple things into my head (mega complicated stuff no problem!). But getting to and too correct forget it!

So I've been studying plot driven and character driven and I just want to make sure I understand them correctly. I like to research different writing tools even if I never use them.

Plot driven is where the plot drives the story and forces the characters to act/make choices.

Character driven is where characters actions/choices causes the events in the plot to happen. It's about the characters choices and the Psychology of their choices. It also tends to focus more on layered characters and their growth/change.
But does it change if another character causes the action? Like a serial killer on the loose forces the FBI to do something.
Also, none of the articles I read covered this. Do you plot them differently? Do you have to ask different questions?

Sometimes I learn from examples, again, which none of these articles provided. Reading a plot driven plot and a character driven books also doesn't help me, because when I'm struggling with something I need things highlighted clearly with no other distractions.

Thank you for your help

 

[goldhawk]

Good stories have strong plot and strong character development. Action-adventure stories known for their weak character development and love romances are known for their formulaic plots. IMO neither makes a good story.

And not only do good stories have both, they are tied together so you can't tell if a scene is developing the plot or a character. Almost all the scenes advance both seamlessly.

 

[Darkfantasy]

Yeah, I agree to an extent. Just some are more one thing or the other and are still considered good stories like The Catcher in the Rye. It focused more on how the events affected the hero's mind more than the events themselves - and it's considered a very good novel. So a novel can be considered "good" even when it leans more on way, I think.

I wasn't saying you should neglect one - just focus on one more.

 

[goldhawk]

IMO, the plot is The Catcher in the Rye is just as strong as the character development. It is the events that force the protag to change. They work together to create a good story.

Action-adventure stories have lots of physical conflicts but physical conflicts aren't the only ones. The Catcher in the Rye has more emotional ones than physical ones.

 

[Darkfantasy]

Oh, at school we were always told it was more character driven than plot. Maybe it's more of a matter of opinion.
So what is your opinion is a more character driven novel?
(not being challenging just genuinely asking)

 

[goldhawk]

IMO, character-driven stories are formulaic. They are predictable to a fault. I prefer stories that intertwine plot and character growth.

 

[Darkfantasy]

IMO, character-driven stories are formulaic. They are predictable to a fault.

Example would be good.
But I've read character driven stories that weren't predictable.One Flew over the Cuckoo nest wasn't, I thought that was more character driven than plot. Also crime stories follow a formula and ate terribly predictable. I also prefer to read a story that does both. But in some occasions both can be too much.

 

[Ned Marcus]

The story is the most important. Character and plot are ways of telling the story. Character is expressed through the design of the story, and the plot is how you move through the story—like plotting a course on a boat.

For me, neither plot driven nor character driven stories are the most satisfying, although I'm well aware that many of them do find an audience.

Just to be clear, in a sense, all stories are character driven. What I mean above are stories where characterization is emphasized at the expense of other elements.

 

[Gray-Hand]

Fantasy stories probably lean more towards being plot driven than character driven, since fantasy elements are usually more relevant to plot than character. In fact, fantasy elements probably get in the way of any attempt to study the human condition more often than not.

 

[Darkfantasy]

I don't mean to seem rude but so far none of my previous questions have been answered. I understand plot and character go hand in hand and that story is the most vital part, we just see that story through characters and plot. However, some books do focus more on one or the other
But is my understanding of them correct? (see above) Those point where really what I needed help with.
Thanks for answering so far.

 

[FifthView]

Just to be clear, in a sense, all stories are character driven.

I disagree with this, if only because the distinction between plot driven and character driven provides a mechanism for understanding different storytelling approaches.

What makes the topic so confusing is the fact that interesting stories should have both, interesting characters and interesting plots.

The fact that what is interesting will depend on the reader adds even more complication, heh.

 

[Ned Marcus]

But is my understanding of them correct? (see above) Those point where really what I needed help with.

The problem is that there are many different ideas on this. I don't think you'll find a definitive answer.

For me, all well told stories are character driven (but that doesn't mean they have to be literary type stories where the focus is on character. Even stories like Star Wars [the original ones] are character driven), and plot driven stories are just poorly told stories.

I don't expect everyone to agree with this, and that's fine—just my opinion.

A character experiencing meaningful change in their life, which comes about through conflict, is how I see a story. So it's hard for me to answer your question directly, because I don't really hold the belief that it's possible to separate the two elements.

 

[FifthView]

But is my understanding of them correct? (see above) Those point where really what I needed help with.

They're more or less correct.

Plot driven is where the plot drives the story and forces the characters to act/make choices.

I think this is a decent summary of a plot driven story. I'll crib a little from a Writing Excuses podcast (Writing Excuses Season 3 Episode 20: Plot- vs. Character-Driven Fiction) and add that the ending or resolution to the story might be looked at for understanding plot driven storytelling. Frodo and Gandalf discover that Bilbo's ring is the One Ring; this sets the ball rolling; and the end is when they successfully destroy that ring. Harry Potter discovers he's The Boy Who Lived; he also discovers that Voldemort is returning once again, seeking control over the world; and the story ends when Harry defeats Voldemort and removes the threat to the world and himself.

In a plot driven story, a character can still—and probably should—change in some respects from beginning to end. You can still have character arcs. Character decisions can still affect how the plot is resolved (or even whether it is resolved), but these decisions exist for the purpose of navigating that plot, overcoming obstacles and surviving conflicts.

Character driven is where characters actions/choices causes the events in the plot to happen.

This bit is not quite right. I think this is true for some types of character driven story but not all types.

If you are writing a Character type of story a la the M.I.C.E. quotient, in which a character is unhappy with her life and sets out on a quest to change her life, then this might be one type of character driven story in which the character's actions and choices cause the events in the plot to happen. (Or some of the events at least. In other words, she set off on this quest to alter her life, so what follows is a consequence of her initial decision.) For instance, if Sally sets off to find a suitable husband because she's a grown woman and a) wants love and b) feels she needs to leave her parents' house, and this quest is the plot of the story, then yes, her very nature—her character—will be driving much of what happens in the story.

Another type of character driven story might be better characterized as a character being forced to change via external pressures. Let's imagine a very different Lord of the Rings. In this story, the One Ring is the One Ring, but neither Frodo nor Gandalf come to this realization. Remember in the movie how Bilbo avoided his extended family members and seemed to shun much of Hobbit society unless he was being honored, as in the case of his birthday party? In a character driven example, the quest to destroy the One Ring at Mt. Doom never happens. Instead, the whole story is about Bilbo being forced, through various interactions, to a) come to understand his addiction to the One Ring and b) learn how to reintegrate with his family and community. A lot of external events, i.e. interactions with various family members and members of the Shire, would be used to force these changes in Bilbo. The resolution would be Bilbo tossing the One Ring into a river, breaking his addiction, and having a new, happy life reintegrated into Hobbit society. Or else a negative resolution would be Bilbo leaving the Shire and living under a mountain, all alone with the One Ring—and becoming essentially a new Gollum!

A character driven story is basically a character study, although it also has this thrust: How will the character change, or will the character change? The various external events, obstacles, and so forth exist to provide the spark of character change and as keystones for revealing character to the reader. The reader's overarching question, what keeps him turning the page, is not the question of how the plot will be resolved so much as how the character will end up as a person and what that character's life will be like after the end of the story. To the degree that there is an external plot, for instance a quest, the story may have a resolution to that as well, but it comes second fiddle and probably will be key to resolving the questions the reader has about the character.

Brandon Sanderson says in that podcast that he thinks he likes writing his very long epic fantasies in part because he has the length to explore both of these in more depth, but not all stories afford that scope. Plus, there can be character driven subplots or side quests within a story that is predominantly plot driven.

 

[Ned Marcus]

interesting stories should have both, interesting characters and interesting plots.

100% agree with this.

 

[Bandicoot]

I agree both are important. Even in fantasy, if the characters are not compelling, if they don't engage you, you can lose interest in the plot. If the character is uninteresting, if we don't care about the character, would we keep on reading? Sure, we want to know where the plot is headed, the twists and the turns, but that is to a great extent because we care about the character/s, one way or the other, love or hate, like or dislike.
But finally, labels are just that, labels. Everything depends on the story that is inside you. Write it first and then see if it suits this or that label, and not the other way around.
Good luck with your tale.

 

[Darkfantasy]

Thanks, I'm starting to get it now. That's what it can be like with me I'm afraid. You can explain something in 100 different ways and my brains still manages to muddle it.
FifthView - thank you for that explanation.

 

[skip.knox]

I think you have it about right, Darkfantasy. To me, the key word isn't plot or character, it's "driven". Plot and character are elements of story, but you were asking about what *drives* the story. Plot driven means the story is primarily (not exclusively!) about events; character driven means the story is primarily (not exclusively!) about people.

My best example of a character-driven story is On the Beach by Nevile Shute. Now, one would think that a book about nuclear war would be event driven, right? But at the outset of the book the war has already happened. Shute sets the story in Australia, so there aren't any glowing wastes; instead, it's the poisonous cloud that is drifting south that brings doom to all. The story is about how the characters react to this. Yes, there's a bit where the MC goes in a submarine up north to try to see if anyone at all is alive, but even that is almost desultory. The real events are quite small--a trip into town, a final race car run on the last of gasoline, sitting on the beach. It's poignant and melancholy. You can contrast that with any number of boom and bash stories about nuclear apocalypse and see the difference between character driven and plot driven.

 

[Chessie2]

Damn (referring to the conversation I've missed, lol). The elements of a story should be well balanced. I don't think there is such a thing as plot or character driven if you want to create a good story. You're writing for readers, who are humans, therefore the characters should be deep and the plot should help them change as people.

 

[Gray-Hand]

Example of character driven stories: anything by Quentin Tarantino.
Example of plot driven stories: anything by Isaac Asimov.

 

[Darkfantasy]

Quentin Tarantino - what an awesome name! heard a lot about him but never even looked him up I don't think. Also heard a lot about Guy Gavriel Kay.