Seven elements but an empty slot

[mbartelsm]

My world is made up of a variety of elements

• At the top tier we have the Void, nothingness, emptiness
• It is followed by the titanic elements of Light and Shadow; Order and Chaos; Time and space, these can be magically controlled by individuals with an inborn skill.
• These are then followed by the element of Life, it makes up souls and spirits, feelings and thoughts
• And at the end of the spectrum we have the physical elements which can be controlled with magic by normal folk:
  • Wind, all gases
  • Fire, heat/cold and flames
  • Metal, all metals
  • Earth, stones and non metallic minerals
  • Wood, Flesh and wood
  • Water, all liquids
  • And the problematic seventh slot

This slot used to be occupied by lightning, but I removed it because it was too similar to fire (there is no such thing as electricity in this setting, so it was basically hot glowy stuff, the same as fire), I thought on filling the slot with frost, but since heat and cold are opposites they could well be placed under the control of the titanic elements of Light and Shadow if I treat them separately, leaving both fire and frost with too little to control.

In other words, I need an element to fill the slot that is not lightning/electricity nor frost/ice. If there really is nothing else to fill that space then I will have to work with six elements, but I'd rather not do so since it may seem like the elements have opposites (water and metal, air and earth, fire and wood), which is not the case.

 

[Ireth]

I think it could be fine with just six elements. And if you WANT them to have working opposites, there's the standard earth/air, fire/water, and also metal/wood. iI think the last two is kinda neat as an opposing pair; it makes me think of the endless conflict between dwarves, creatures of earth and metal, and elves, creatures of the woods.

 

[ThinkerX]

'Void' or 'Null'. Capable of cancelling the effects of ANY of the other elemental magics. Also used by more esoteric wizards to combine elemental magics in ways normally impossible. Also noted for providing absolute clarity (truth).

 

[Queshire]

hmmm.... well, the thing that pops out to me first off would be splitting wood into plants and animals. Considering the division between metal and earth I think you should be able to pull that off well enough. Personally if you go that route I'd suggest renaming Life to Soul or Heart and naming the element dealing with animals Life, but I suppose calling it Flesh would work as well.

You could also go with an artificial type of material made via magic or alchemy, sort of like plastic, but I don't know enough about your setting to know if that's possible.

Let's see.... what else? Hm, I notice that you don't have a way to actually manipulate ice. It's not a liquid, it's not a gas, fire can melt it but at that point it's not ice anymore, actually, that could be an interesting plot point.

Ah, that brings up another point, each of these elements are pretty clear cut, something belongs in one category and one category only, and even for something like a dresser with metallic knobs, the knobs are essentially a separate thing from the wood of the dresser as far as magic is concerned. What about the interplay of these elements? The connection between them? Or what about things that are harder to find a category or would belong to an unintuitive category? What about Lava? That's a liquid so that would be water magic, fire magic could cool the lava but at that point it becomes subject to earth or metal magic and the flames of the lava would be a separate thing from the lava. What about clouds? Clouds aren't actually a gas, they're little beads of liquid or ice surrounding small bits of dust or dirt. Who would control a thunderstorm? An Air mage? Water mage? Fire because of the lightning?

Um.... sorry I can't be more helpful with the actual question of this thread, I hope that these questions help you with your system.

 

[Ankari]

What about gravity?

 

[Pythagoras]

Could smoke be one?

 

[Lunaairis]

plague cause plague is awesome. the corruption of all elements. Rusts metal, kills wood, erodes earth, sours water, and poisons wind. Only fire has a slight advantage over it.

 

[mbartelsm]

What about gravity?

Gravity is handled by the combination of Time and Space (light and darkness)

Could smoke be one?

Well, smoke already fits within the category of wind, so...

I think it could be fine with just six elements. And if you WANT them to have working opposites, there's the standard earth/air, fire/water, and also metal/wood. iI think the last two is kinda neat as an opposing pair; it makes me think of the endless conflict between dwarves, creatures of earth and metal, and elves, creatures of the woods.

It's an interesting idea to have wood and metal antagonize, I guess it fits more than my water/metal idea.

hmmm.... well, the thing that pops out to me first off would be splitting wood into plants and animals. Considering the division between metal and earth I think you should be able to pull that off well enough. Personally if you go that route I'd suggest renaming Life to Soul or Heart and naming the element dealing with animals Life, but I suppose calling it Flesh would work as well.

You could also go with an artificial type of material made via magic or alchemy, sort of like plastic, but I don't know enough about your setting to know if that's possible.

Let's see.... what else? Hm, I notice that you don't have a way to actually manipulate ice. It's not a liquid, it's not a gas, fire can melt it but at that point it's not ice anymore, actually, that could be an interesting plot point.

Ah, that brings up another point, each of these elements are pretty clear cut, something belongs in one category and one category only, and even for something like a dresser with metallic knobs, the knobs are essentially a separate thing from the wood of the dresser as far as magic is concerned. What about the interplay of these elements? The connection between them? Or what about things that are harder to find a category or would belong to an unintuitive category? What about Lava? That's a liquid so that would be water magic, fire magic could cool the lava but at that point it becomes subject to earth or metal magic and the flames of the lava would be a separate thing from the lava. What about clouds? Clouds aren't actually a gas, they're little beads of liquid or ice surrounding small bits of dust or dirt. Who would control a thunderstorm? An Air mage? Water mage? Fire because of the lightning?

Um.... sorry I can't be more helpful with the actual question of this thread, I hope that these questions help you with your system.

Ok, that's a lot to think about.
I don't really want to split Wood in two categories, it's kind of my favorite, it feels strange, I like strange in small quantities, even though it is probably the best solution.

As much as I hate it, I don't hate the Ice solution as much as having six elements or splitting Wood in two. I guess I just needed someone to clear my head for me, Thanks Queshire

And as lava concerns, it is a problematic substance because of what you said, I had given it some though before and I just kind of left it to Earth and Metal to control depending on the amount of each element that makes it up. The rule of water is something along the lines of: If something is liquid and it is also liquid when at room temperature then it belongs to water. Since lava isn't liquid when at room temperature then it belongs to it's respective category (earth and/or metal). It is similar for ice, even though Ice is liquid when at room temperature, it is not liquid when it is ice, thus it cannot be controlled by water.

 

[Trick]

There is of course the Robert Jordan classic 'Spirit' similar to previous suggestions, it ties things together, binds and unbinds.

Also, why not Illusion? Some magic users could pretend to be one of the manipulators of the other elements when in fact their power is over the perception of others...

No idea if that helps.

 

[Lycan999]

Plasma could fit the final element. Scientifically speaking plasma is the fourth state of matter with the same properties as a gas except with a high electrical charge. Lightening is a natural plasma and stars are also made of it. It could fit as a almost never used magic, but could still exist to fit the void. To differentiate it from fire you could use fire as heat, cold, and classic fire, and plasma could be a highly volatile element that is almost never used because of its tendency to explode unexpectedly and sent volt of energy racing through anything conductive.

 

[Lycan999]

I also rather like the idea of paring every element as well. In my universe there is 15 elements, all pared with another except one, the 15th. Five are astral: space and time, spirit and luck/fate, with the last being mind. There are also 10 physical elements: fire and ice, water and energy, air and earth, metal and nature, and finally light and darkness. There are also four primordial concepts, being chaos and order, good and evil. This might not help at all, but I have given it a lot of thought and it works for me.

 

[Daichungak]

Corruption? Decay?

 

[TWErvin2]

What about Blood?

 

[Asura Levi]

I have the same problem but with the eighth element. In my case, it is built in compass like system and I need that one to exist. They also follow a kind of order were the ordinals seams to be combination of the cardinals and thus I have (clockwise from top) Earth, Metal, Fire, Lightning, Wind, ???, Water, Wood.

In the end, I end up going with 'unknown' as if the elements are still being discovered by the scholars and the compass system is something they developed because it made sense for them.

Yet, I still have the problem.

But as Ireth pointed out, go with the six, unless you have a reason for it to be seven where you can still make it a mystery.

 

[mbartelsm]

I have the same problem but with the eighth element. In my case, it is built in compass like system and I need that one to exist. They also follow a kind of order were the ordinals seams to be combination of the cardinals and thus I have (clockwise from top) Earth, Metal, Fire, Lightning, Wind, ???, Water, Wood.

In the end, I end up going with 'unknown' as if the elements are still being discovered by the scholars and the compass system is something they developed because it made sense for them.

Yet, I still have the problem.

But as Ireth pointed out, go with the six, unless you have a reason for it to be seven where you can still make it a mystery.

Interesting idea, after all real world physics works under the same premise, if it works then it's probably true, even if it's not complete.
I need to have the seven elements, not only because a great number of things are based on the number seven but also because it is best if they don't have an opposite, and odd numbers make it easier.

 

[Svrtnsse]

How about conflict/contrast as an element.

The power the exists between opposing forces. It would exist at the other end of the scale to Void/Nothing and represent existence.
Without silence, no sound.
Without light, no darkness.
Without death, no life.

Something like that. It's a bet quasimetaphysiophilosophical, but could be quite interesting if explored.

 

[Gecks]

"Spirit"? though I get the impression this isn't what you're going for.. since you states "physical elements" controlled with magic. Could you make 'magic' itself be one of the 7 elements?

Otherwise I suggest Stone? I can't find anything else on your list that that would easily come under.

(Edit: re-reading your initial post, I realised Stone obviously comes under Earth, so actually I'm out of ideas... unless you split earth down into more elements or something)

 

[Asura Levi]

Well, You could get back to lightning and associate it to energy, the moving force of all beings. It is true similar to fire but the propose differ. It is not more about heating or cooling but moving, so I think it would be fine.

 

[Foah]

I'd say Stone. Given that you have the 4 basic elements of wind, fire, water and earth followed by wood and metal.

Our history tells us our forefathers used wood, then stone, then metals. I think this would make quite some sense. One could argue that stone feels like just a branch of earth - but so is wood and metal in that case I don't know, I just think that stone would fit in perfectly between wood and metal.

 

[Asura Levi]

I'd say Stone. Given that you have the 4 basic elements of wind, fire, water and earth followed by wood and metal.

Our history tells us our forefathers used wood, then stone, then metals. I think this would make quite some sense. One could argue that stone feels like just a branch of earth - but so is wood and metal in that case I don't know, I just think that stone would fit in perfectly between wood and metal.

But then we are forgetting the basic idea:

Wind, all gases
Fire, heat/cold and flames
Metal, all metals
Earth, stones and non metallic minerals
Wood, Flesh and wood
Water, all liquids

Earth are all non-metallic solids and metal are the metallic ones when wood is related to 'alive' solids such as flesh and wood/plants.
It is not just a matter of what will fill the empty slot but also what will be associated with it.

That is my understanding of his post though