glutton
Inkling
That was kind of my whole point: unless there is a reason for him to have long hair, he won't have long hair.
What is the 'reason' for him to have short hair then, because most people of his culture and gender have short hair?
That was kind of my whole point: unless there is a reason for him to have long hair, he won't have long hair.
That extract doesn't further the story and is never mentioned again. Foster, are you saying it's pointless and should have been cut?
What is the 'reason' for him to have short hair then, because most people of his culture and gender have short hair?
If there's no reason for him to have long hair, it isn't that I won't mention that he has long hair, I'll make him not have long hair.
That seems to contradict this:
Well, for many of us, diversity just makes sense to us, because it makes our worlds that much more interesting. So perhaps us trying to convince you is in hopes that it will help your writing in some way.
I've come to the conclusion that you have no interest in including anything that wavers from your own model of writing (this "revelation" happened about 12 pages ago). And that's fine, stick to your guns. But I think several people have come up with many valid reasons why to include a more diverse cast in your writing.
Wouldn't it be better to talk about what's needed for the story, for a story?
Different stories call for different elements to be included. Different writers write different stories. Scenes and events that have no real impact on the outcome of the story may still be added as they can contribute something else that improves the reading experience. In the same way, important events can be distilled into a mere handful of words if that's what fits the story best.
At this point the discussion shouldn't be about whether diversity is needed or not, it should be about what's needed to further a story. If we can't even figure that out then how can we say that adding diversity will make it better?
Wouldn't it be better to talk about what's needed for the story, for a story?
If we're discussing why to include diversity in a story, I think several people have given valid reasons.
1. To flesh out the world that your characters are inhabiting
2. To give a particular image to character so he or she resonates with your readers
3. To allow for a wider range of the human experience in your writing
4. To make each member of your cast stand out in some way (as Feo highlighted discussing details helped his writing)
Don't all these things further a story in some way? That's why I think these are valid arguments for including more diversity.
These are just some points. However, if all of these points are rejected and argued against, then OK, what else is there to discuss on the topic?
They're all good points and I think I've mentioned at least the first one myself in this thread at some point. Diversity is great for adding depth to the world. I can't argue against that.
What I can argue against is whether it's needed for the story. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. There's nothing categorical about it. You can't say adding diversity will always make it better (or worse).
I'm all for adding diversity when there's a reason for it (in a short story I wrote a chocolatier hires a dark skinned elf as his shop-assistant/apprentice specifically because dark skin is supposed to bring good fortune when dealing with chocolate magic), but to add it just to be diverse, without putting thought into why is something I'll oppose.
You need to have a reason for what you're doing. The reasons you gave above are all great, but they're not always needed to just tell the story (at least from a hypothetical point of view).
If we're talking about just the bare minimum to tell a story, then yeah, maybe some of these points may not be so important. But for me, writing involves much more than just the bare minimum.
I'd just like to point out that I do like to flesh out the world and add little details about this or that to give the world more life. I believe a deeper sense of life in the world brings on a more pleasant reading experience.
Yeah, but even apart from this, the idea that inclusion of diversity would somehow interfere with the bare minimum elements and make a story weaker is insupportable on its face. It's just a proposition that makes no sense, and restating it over and over doesn't alter that.
Yeah, but even apart from this, the idea that inclusion of diversity would somehow interfere with the bare minimum elements and make a story weaker is insupportable on its face. It's just a proposition that makes no sense, and restating it over and over doesn't alter that.
Trying to add diversity for its own sake rather than for a specific reason (pretty much any reason will do) really may detract from the story you want to tell in a negative way.
May.
99.99% of the time, I doubt that it would. Seriously, if I mention that character X is black when I introduce him, what's the negative way in which that detracts from my story?