BloodyHellSausage
Troubadour
For a real life example, before the law was changed, women in Illinois were allowed to drink at 18, but men were not until 21.
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Are males and females treated differently in certain aspects of society?
- Thread starter BloodyHellSausage
- Start date
pmmg
Myth Weaver
Are you asking about in todays world? I think...well duh. Are men And women different? Certainly in some ways. Do they sometimes have different laws and different customs. I think that goes without saying.
If your asking about in a fantasy world i am creating, well it would depend on the world i was making. In the current one it is more of a patriarchal setting following what would be similar to many 12 century societies. Ive not delved too far onto a legal system but i suspect there would be some about property and aldulerous behavior or some such. Buts its not a focus of the story and i dont expect it to become so.
If your asking about in a fantasy world i am creating, well it would depend on the world i was making. In the current one it is more of a patriarchal setting following what would be similar to many 12 century societies. Ive not delved too far onto a legal system but i suspect there would be some about property and aldulerous behavior or some such. Buts its not a focus of the story and i dont expect it to become so.
Yes, let's focus the discussion on the fantasy world. Debates on contemporary religion and politics, per se, are not in line with the Forum Rules, and certainly gender politics falls squarely into that category. Discussion of such matters within the context of your fantasy world is permitted, of course, so long as those discussions remain respectful.
- Thread starter
- #4
BloodyHellSausage
Troubadour
I meant fantasy worlds, I thought that would be obvious because I posted it on World Building.
Yes, I assumed as much as well, especially since you asked about these topics prior to posting, which is appreciated. But in these threads it is sometimes useful to post a reminder. It's not a reflection on your original post, just a general comment/reminder for anyone else coming into the thread.
pmmg
Myth Weaver
Well. I dont know about anyone elses fantasy world. Imo the real differences between men and women will lead to some type of different standards between the two. (And if there were not such differences why even have the genders). I would expect this would bleed into a legal system, but i am open to a story that does not include it. In my own current fantasy world the men would be more expected to take prominet roles and women would have a harder time trying to do the same. I male child would be much more likely to succeed to a throne than a female one for example. I dont delve into the rightness or wrongness of it. Some characters don't care some may. Its not really the focus to shed light on the social questions of this stories day.
For me, fantasy only holds up when it echoes the real world. As such, I do often include societies that echo our current/historic approaches to gender. I generally go light touch on it and model after relatively equal societies though; I don't have the taste or patience for doing research into who it goes in more unequal societies, nor for dealing with the inevitable cries that I got it wrong.
CupofJoe
Myth Weaver
In my WiP, the law is loosely matriarchal. Women are the main owners of stuff, inheritance runs down the female line etc. That said there is still a lot of societal "norms" [magic and slavery and lots of not so nice things] that means women often get the very dirty and pointed end of the stick. I haven't worked out ages of majority, consent and the rest, but they will be the same for all genders and probably in the mid to late teens. I'm thinking that by 15 most children will be expected to fend for themselves unless they are lucky enough to have family and friends to help them along the way. As always money and power makes this a moot point in many cases.
There are also a slice of society of neutered people [ neutered at very different ages, some done through choice, other as a punishment, a few as a result of magical beliefs] and I haven't quite worked out how they fit societal as they come upon their condition [if you want to call it that] in very different ways. Someone made a Eunuch to give them a chance of a "better life" will be treated differently to someone castrated for a terrible crime.
I need to know more about Eunuch IRL to fill out their roles and positions in society.
There are also a slice of society of neutered people [ neutered at very different ages, some done through choice, other as a punishment, a few as a result of magical beliefs] and I haven't quite worked out how they fit societal as they come upon their condition [if you want to call it that] in very different ways. Someone made a Eunuch to give them a chance of a "better life" will be treated differently to someone castrated for a terrible crime.
I need to know more about Eunuch IRL to fill out their roles and positions in society.
Not sure what you're after here. The answer is "yes" but then what? How about in your own world? Also, there is a world of stories in the space between how the law treats men versus women, and how they treat each other informally.
And, because I always bang on this drum, are there differences between humans, elves, and any other races who people your world? What does dwarf law say about elf women, for example? Is a male ogre courteous to all males or only to those of his own kind? And so on.
And, because I always bang on this drum, are there differences between humans, elves, and any other races who people your world? What does dwarf law say about elf women, for example? Is a male ogre courteous to all males or only to those of his own kind? And so on.
Orc Knight
Auror
This may take a bit, and staying within Eld. It hits every part of the scales.
The elves (in thanks to the drow trying to invade every part of elf society) have swung heavily matriarchal. Though the High, Gold and Sea elves keep mostly equal with each other. It's mostly down to whoever is capable of doing the job, does it. Drow and wood elf, women are generally bigger and hold the soldier castes for the most part. Though, the wood elves had a civil war to switch from a patriarchy to a matriarchy. Though there opposites on on the Celestial continent is a heavily patriarchal society, but with the Lich Wars, they lost a lot and the society is changing with women having to fill in due to heavy losses during it.
It is more equal among the Greenskins, (Orc, troll and goblin, obviously), mostly due to most the types being able to switch sex/gender at will. The likes of hobgoblins and hruld's can not, due to status as a servant/brood mother races. Though they all have equal say in their councils and each Horde is controlled by a War Chief and Matron. Though the roles may switch, depending.
Dwarves, well, mostly equal too. Though the delvers (classic dwarves) tend to be more on the stay in the kitchen side to go with paranoid xenophobia. The top siders, orchard tenders and goat riding nomads, are slightly more open to the equality thing.
Humans, run the course. From the Bene Gesserit breeding programs of sorts in their one totally human society that's not looked over by the elves. If they get ignored, they do have the tendency towards kingdoms with men on top. Or, not so on top, if there's a witch about. Of course, it all goes out the window if the elves actually decide to take interest and thrall them. Not going to get into the monster races.
The elves (in thanks to the drow trying to invade every part of elf society) have swung heavily matriarchal. Though the High, Gold and Sea elves keep mostly equal with each other. It's mostly down to whoever is capable of doing the job, does it. Drow and wood elf, women are generally bigger and hold the soldier castes for the most part. Though, the wood elves had a civil war to switch from a patriarchy to a matriarchy. Though there opposites on on the Celestial continent is a heavily patriarchal society, but with the Lich Wars, they lost a lot and the society is changing with women having to fill in due to heavy losses during it.
It is more equal among the Greenskins, (Orc, troll and goblin, obviously), mostly due to most the types being able to switch sex/gender at will. The likes of hobgoblins and hruld's can not, due to status as a servant/brood mother races. Though they all have equal say in their councils and each Horde is controlled by a War Chief and Matron. Though the roles may switch, depending.
Dwarves, well, mostly equal too. Though the delvers (classic dwarves) tend to be more on the stay in the kitchen side to go with paranoid xenophobia. The top siders, orchard tenders and goat riding nomads, are slightly more open to the equality thing.
Humans, run the course. From the Bene Gesserit breeding programs of sorts in their one totally human society that's not looked over by the elves. If they get ignored, they do have the tendency towards kingdoms with men on top. Or, not so on top, if there's a witch about. Of course, it all goes out the window if the elves actually decide to take interest and thrall them. Not going to get into the monster races.
- Thread starter
- #11
BloodyHellSausage
Troubadour
Get into the monster races! Or, maybe not.
Demesnedenoir
Myth Weaver
I've a big world that's all over the board. In one culture, there would never be a "ruling" queen. There must always be a king and three queens to mirror the heavens. To have otherwise would be to invite chaos and war, disturbing the balance in their theology. Not that the power balance would always be the same, but legally, it would be. And, the head of the three wings of the church would always be women. There's all kinds of stuff all over the place, with different cultures.
JBryden88
Troubadour
So in my WIP, it depends on the race and culture.
For my humans it's fairly traditional medieval. They have injust systems and inherent sexism (though the sexism takes other forms.)
For the giants gender doesn't matter. As far as anyone's concern the difference is appearance and the function of carrying kids. Giants have tougher bodies, so even giant women while pregnant are known to fight. There's nothing they can do better or worse because of gender. There's no social stigmas.
For my humans it's fairly traditional medieval. They have injust systems and inherent sexism (though the sexism takes other forms.)
For the giants gender doesn't matter. As far as anyone's concern the difference is appearance and the function of carrying kids. Giants have tougher bodies, so even giant women while pregnant are known to fight. There's nothing they can do better or worse because of gender. There's no social stigmas.
Scribe
TheKillerBs
Maester
My current WIP is set in the Paleolithic, so it depends on the tribe. The one that's been the focus of the story thus far is mostly egalitarian as far as gender is concerned. My WIP is heavily influenced by Chinese martial arts/fantasy novels (wuxia/xianxia/xuanhuan) so it's very much Might Makes Right in regards to authority. Men and women have the same opportunities, rights and restrictions, and there is no division of labour by gender. If you are stronger, you have more status within the tribe, and thus more freedoms are afforded to you and you can get away with more. The only difference in treatment is that if girls don't reach a certain level by age 16, there is a push from the tribe for them to get married; guys have to reach their (higher) target level by 20 to avoid it. (On the other hand, whether male or female, if one shows enough talent, one will be discouraged from marrying until one's growth starts tapering off.) Most magical tribes have a similar setup, although a minority disallow or make it very difficult for one gender or the other to cultivate magic in an attempt to keep their traditions from before they were taught magic. The non-magical tribes range from heavily matriarchal to heavily patriarchal with everything in between, although I doubt that will ever be relevant.
I'm not very interested in gender roles irl and also in fiction. It can be interesting when it's masterfully crafted like in Stormlight Archive but otherwise I just don't care and don't mention it so genders are treated equal in all of my settings unless I might find a way to make it interesting and it adds to the plot or something.
Same with racism, etc., not a topic I find interesting in any way even in fiction so fantasy racism usually bores me to death. Sadly it's extremely popular to give characters a motivation for whatever the plot needs, drives home how much of and underdog they are since the worse off the main character, the more popular the story, etc..
Same with racism, etc., not a topic I find interesting in any way even in fiction so fantasy racism usually bores me to death. Sadly it's extremely popular to give characters a motivation for whatever the plot needs, drives home how much of and underdog they are since the worse off the main character, the more popular the story, etc..
