Change of Tone on the Forum

[Philip Overby]

I'm incredibly happy to call Mythic Scribes my "home" forum. I have to agree with Amanita though (who's been here since day 1) that when the forum first started it seemed that no one ever argued about anything. I still think we have a good group of people here, but I'd like to see more of a focus on being a support group and not a place to throw down arguments about things. The idea of "controversy sells" kind of runs rampant on the internet. Some topics (as I've learned teaching ESL) like religion, politics, etc. are always hot button issues that CAN create good debates, but can oftentimes turn to snark and judgment and irritation.

I'd like everyone to get what they'd like out of this forum, but I'd encourage more discussion in the Showcase or more Writing Questions or more Challenges (like Legendary Sidekick has done wonderfully) or anything positive that can help other burgeoning fantasy writers. I like the Chit Chat section, but some of the more controversial subjects that can be divisive have sprouted up there. I'd like to see more thought-provoking topics about fantasy writing. That is why we're all here after all, our love for fantasy. Sure grammar and such is important, but let's not dwell too much on nit-picking.

I think this community will continue to grow and get new members. Some who may contribute in awesome ways and others who maybe won't. But I think it's important to keep in mind that we're here to help each other and not tear each other down. If you feel like someone is attacking you, report them. I'd love for MS to be a nurturing place and not a place where people are afraid to share their opinion because someone's going to jump down their throat because they don't agree.

Let's be nice! For the sake of the future of fantasy!

 

[Kelise]

I have to admit - it's mostly the reason as to why I haven't come back. I went away for a few weeks when my partner was visiting and the change that had taken place during those 18 days was astounding. It made it too hard to come back when I have so much on my plate already (I'm an appalling mod, aren't I?) but that's basically the truth.

A shame.

Hopefully once the judging I'm apart of is over (I'm a judge for the Australian Spec Fic Aurealis Awards) I'll have the time to jump back in here.

 

[Sheilawisz]

I have been a part of Mythic Scribes only since last November, but since my first day I thought that this was a wonderful forum and I really love it here!! Sure we have some issues and fights sometimes, but really, you cannot throw so many Fantasy Writers together in the same place and hope that everything will always run smoothly =P

We have our points of view about what we do, we have different ideas, we have big egos, we have a collection of different writing styles, we are full of passion for our writing and our creations and all of that means that, at least sometimes, fights will break out- There are so many other forums with problems and fights far worse than what I have witnessed here so far, actually I think that everyone here in Mythic Scribes is very nice.

The only real problem that I see is that we have new members everyday but very few of them decide to stay and be a part of our community- Why is that? Are we scaring them away?

 

[Telcontar]

The only real problem that I see is that we have new members everyday but very few of them decide to stay and be a part of our community- Why is that? Are we scaring them away?

No, it's a natural thing. More people will find a forum than will actually participate. There are always 'lurkers' (I am one of these in several places) who don't feel they have much to contribute but want to follow various topics of conversation, as well as people who sign up to make one comment then go away, and lots of other types. One community I'm a part of has 40 thousand registered accounts - and maybe 4 thousand actives.

It is linked to the Pareto Principle, if you feel like reading something.

 

[Black Dragon]

After discussion with our moderators and staff, we have determined our course of action:

http://mythicscribes.com/forums/new...important-reporting-posts-improving-tone.html

 

[Jess A]

I must agree.

I confess that I can be quite a direct person at times, but only when it calls for it (at least, I hope so). Even I sometimes feel a tad defensive, even though I usually don't give two ****s what people think of me. After all, they know nothing about me and all they see is a screen name!

I've not been here long, yet I see a lot of misplaced or self-righteous arrogance which privately just annoys me (not so privately if I am mentioning it now, I suppose). It does not bother me enough to stick with me after I click the cross, but it does make me a bit curious.

However! I have been on a few forums in my time online, and I never stick around long. Part of the reason is because I both work and study. Most of the reason is because people are idiots, trolls and a**holes. The fact that I am still here shows that I think somewhat highly of this place so far. I have high standards and I'm not afraid to say it. I searched for a decent fantasy-writing forum and I feel that this is a good long-term place for me as a fantasy reader and writer. It is my understanding that you will always come across arguments, debate, 'cattiness' and arrogance in any sort of community. If anybody bothers me, I will either ignore it or give it back to them! Perhaps privately to keep the public peace...

That said, you should not have to feel uncomfortable and I hope your stay improves.

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

I joined only one or two months ago, and while I haven't been subject directly to any of this hostility, I have been aware of some underlying currents of tension at times and seen a few members recieve public warnings. This place is a huge benefit for me and my writing and I agree with you all, when things get ugly its just disheartening.

 

[The Blue Lotus]

I joined only one or two months ago, and while I haven't been subject directly to any of this hostility, I have been aware of some underlying currents of tension at times and seen a few members recieve public warnings. This place is a huge benefit for me and my writing and I agree with you all, when things get ugly its just disheartening.

I can't speak for everyone. However, I think (IMO) that a lot of what is being mistaken for tension is really just a clash of some very strong personalities.





A lot of people here are larger than life in that department. Most of us are quite capable of forming strong opinions and have no qualms stating them with a great deal of emphasis. That is not always a bad thing. I can see how new people are even old people who don't really know the stronger personalities would mistake a simple battle of wits, and exchange of ideas, or a disagreement as "Tension" or "Hostility".



You never know what is going on with someone. I rather think of it like going to court for a parking ticket. If the Judge on your case got into it with his wife... you are in for a bad day, regardless of what the real issue may be.



This place is oft times used as a way to escape our own realities for a while. Where we can create our own worlds and work out problems however we see fit. Some people are sensitive to this, others could care less. That’s life. Unfortunately we do not have the social cues that are ingrained in us from birth that tell us how to deal with set circumstances.



For instance, I can't see a clenched jaw line when I read "Are you stupid?" Now depending on my mood at the time I read this I might think that the poster is insulting me or angry with something I have posted. On the other hand I could take that to mean 'I disagree with you...' or ‘OMG! you have so made me LOL.’


This just makes my case for more and better emoticons. They are extremely helpful in getting the “tone” across in an otherwise static environment.



For the most part I honestly think that is what everyone is seeing. Simple misunderstandings based on missing information.

Might I suggest that rather than try to defend ones self that we ask others to explain their stance?

 

[Devor]

For instance, I can't see a clenched jaw line when I read "Are you stupid?" Now depending on my mood at the time I read this I might think that the poster is insulting me or angry with something I have posted. On the other hand I could take that to mean 'I disagree with you...' or ‘OMG! you have so made me LOL.’

For the most part I was agreeing with you before your example. In my opinion this isn't a forum to escape to but a community with real potential to help struggling authors with real work. While we are, as I mentioned myself, somewhat a community of egos, which isn't the same as conflict, there are some behaviors and attitudes which are beyond the scope of an effective community. I'm pretty sure "Are you stupid?" qualifies as unnecessary conflict.

 

[The Blue Lotus]

Ah but I have a little sister who would disagree with you.



No one should post "are you stupid?" but as is the case with many of today’s kids what is bad sounding to me has the exact opposite meaning to someone her age...



Another example would be "Ghetto" apparently that no longer means one who comes from a low income area and lacks any sense of education, and acts "thugish" nopes, now it is equivalent to "Radical" or "Cool".



All I meant was that sometimes people say things with the expectation that the meaning comes across as intended. again smilies help with this. I used "are you stupid" as the example because it is an expression I use a lot with the hubby. Who understands that I'm not litteraly calling him stupid, I'm calling something he said a few giggles short of rubber wall paper.



I have yet to see anyone flat out refuse to help another on here. Which is a good thing! Bottom line we are all human, and we all need to understand that "tone" does not transmit well. Nor do little seemingly innocent phrases that we use have universal meaning.



It does not make it right, if someone is feeling as if they are unable to be open within the space. However, hopefully it can give them an alternate perspective.

 

[Philip Overby]

I think if we don't know each other that well, we don't want to be calling each other stupid. Sure, there are things I say to my friends sometimes, but I would never dream of calling someone who is mostly anonymous "stupid." Or using any sort of language that might be misconstrued as controversial.

I think most of the tension or argumentative nature of some of the threads can't be confused as "playing around." There have been direct attacks (and indirect) on some of the more touchy subjects.

I think if you need to debate something, it's fine to do so. But debate the point.

 

[Kelise]

I think because we don't know each other that well, and that we're basically anonymous (able to hide behind avatars and usernames) there's so much more freedom to be nasty and rude.

If we could all behave as if we're co-workers, and then someday friends, it would be the right tone to take in this forum. Polite, professional - able to debate a subject whilst having respect for everyone's opinions and views on the subject. We're all different ages, from different countries, with different experiences.

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

I think because we don't know each other that well, and that we're basically anonymous (able to hide behind avatars and usernames) there's so much more freedom to be nasty and rude.

If we could all behave as if we're co-workers, and then someday friends, it would be the right tone to take in this forum. Polite, professional - able to debate a subject whilst having respect for everyone's opinions and views on the subject. We're all different ages, from different countries, with different experiences.

Well said, dear colleague.

 

[Jess A]

I think the 'stupid' example is just that - an example.

There are other, subtler things which can be easily misinterpreted. I find forum communication difficult at times. I read people quite well in person - I use body language, facial language, tone etc. On here? Not so easy. While we may not be going around calling somebody 'stupid', we might accidentally be stating something which to someone else might sound 'snide' or 'rude' or 'arrogant' when in actual fact it is a friendly comment.

The best way to get around this is to clarify what they mean by asking.

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

@Lotus,

I agree that sometimes it is just a simple misunderstanding - that no harm is intended. I also think that some people enjoy arguing. When it gets out of hand, the people IN the argument may not see it as a problem. It may be the people reading the argument who find it hostile. (I had a friend who used to argue with his wife in front of company. He thought it was cute; maybe she did, too. I thought it was miserable.)

Here's where I'm going with this: if you - the reader - see something that looks hostile, please make use of that report button. (I promise that I'm not wielding my shiny new Ban Hammer™ with a white-knuckle grip, just waiting for an excuse to come out swinging.) I love this site because it's a place where I can share my wild ideas, hone my writing skills, and learn from fellow writers who are positive, helpful and fun to interact with. "Positive, helpful and fun" is not a tone I want to see changed!

 

[Jess A]

I'd hope people would use the 'report' button only when quite sure that it IS hostile. People online are the touchiest bunch I have ever met.

 

[Devor]

I'd hope people would use the 'report' button only when quite sure that it IS hostile. People online are the touchiest bunch I have ever met.

I'd hope things were reported early enough in the hostilities so that those involved can correct the tone before things get out of hand. And, I mean, mods have a number of techniques they can use to intervene, not all of them are public and aggressive. "Hey, we're sending this PM to a couple of people on this thread just in case, but please help us out by being extra aware of the tone on this thread and help us keep the conversation friendly." I honestly think that will result in fewer locked threads instead of more.

I do understand what you're saying, of course, about making sure a comment is actually hostile before you report. I don't mean to sound like I disagree by any means.

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

Exactly, Devor. Just because a post is reported, it doesn't mean the creator of the reported post is "busted." The report button simply draws attention, and it works best if a hostile post is reported immediately.

EDIT - Black Dragon states my point, but much more eloquently, in the Reporting Posts thread:

At the bottom of each post, to the right of the "Thanks" button, you will notice a caution symbol. This is the "Report Post" button. Pressing it will alert the moderators of the issue, and we will investigate it as soon as possible.

We are asking you to push the "Report Post" button at the first sign of argumentative or hostile behavior.

If you have any doubt as to whether or not the post in question is appropriate, push it anyway, and let us make the decision. We will be fair.

 

[Jess A]

No worries Devor - your statement sounded fair from the start Now we're being extra careful. The irony is amusing. I say that in a very playful manner. I think the idea of emoticons is fantastic! Perhaps we can secure some cool dragon ones or something along the lines of 'fantasy'.

 

[The Blue Lotus]

I think the idea of emoticons is fantastic! Perhaps we can secure some cool dragon ones or something along the lines of 'fantasy'.

Here here! Some that express a wide range of emotions from not feeling well/grossed out, to banging head on wall/what was this person thinking.


@ storm, yes the "stupid" post was just that an example. Maybe it was not the best one but it was the first one that came to my mind at the time.

Someone said something about internet people being sensitive. Hammer-Nail-Head-- Bang! That is so true, but again I think it because tone does not transfer. But we have alredy covered that. Personaly if I happen to come off as rude etc it is usualy not intended that way.