Joe the Gnarled
Sage
Has the death of the protagonist's parents as a source of motivation been done too much? Is this too cliché?
Please discuss.
Please discuss.
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Cliché motivation?
- Thread starter Joe the Gnarled
- Start date
Spider
Sage
As several members of this site have taught me, cliches aren't necessarily bad. Try to put an interesting spin on it, or give it a unique perspective. Maybe it's not simply the death of the protagonist's parents that serves as motivation, but how they died. (And by motivation, do you mean motivation to defeat the antagonist?) Perhaps who killed his/her parents fuels the emotional tension of the story. A murderer who was previously a nobody in the protagonist's life won't grab the reader's attention as much as a murderer who was, say, the protagonist's best friend since childhood.
Play around with it and see what you come up with, but don't be afraid to use cliches in your story.
Play around with it and see what you come up with, but don't be afraid to use cliches in your story.
It's definitely been done before and I guess it's one of those things that can be seen as cliche if taken out of context. I'd say it all depends on the story though and how it's presented.
If it's an element you want to use in your story my advice would be to worry less about whether it's cliche or not, and more about if you can make good use of it.
If it's an element you want to use in your story my advice would be to worry less about whether it's cliche or not, and more about if you can make good use of it.
Feo Takahari
Auror
TV Tropes used to have a page called Rape is the New Dead Parents. What they meant by that is that there was a point in time when authors thought "What can I do to establish my protagonist's motivation with as little effort as possible? I'll kill her parents!" Then that changed to "What can I do to establish my protagonist's motivation with as little effort as possible? I'll have her get raped!"
We've all read the arguments that spring up regarding rape as a motivator--not because it's bad to use it, but because it's given so little weight, used as merely a springboard to start the adventure. Why not approach dead parents the same way? Make them matter. Make the reader feel the pain the protagonist feels. And don't just forget about them after the opening act. (Maybe the protagonist still follows the lessons they taught her, or maybe she meets and helps someone who's felt a similar loss.)
We've all read the arguments that spring up regarding rape as a motivator--not because it's bad to use it, but because it's given so little weight, used as merely a springboard to start the adventure. Why not approach dead parents the same way? Make them matter. Make the reader feel the pain the protagonist feels. And don't just forget about them after the opening act. (Maybe the protagonist still follows the lessons they taught her, or maybe she meets and helps someone who's felt a similar loss.)
I don't really consider any motivation cliche. It's poor execution of the story and that motivation that makes it cliche.
There are very few fundamental motivators that are universally understood, one of which the harming of someone the main character loves.
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
For me, I use maslow's hierarchy of needs and use these to determine the basic motivations for my characters. More complex motivations stem from these. The lower down the pyramid these needs are, the easier they are to understand and convey. The lack of one or more of these needs gives you motivations.
There are very few fundamental motivators that are universally understood, one of which the harming of someone the main character loves.
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
For me, I use maslow's hierarchy of needs and use these to determine the basic motivations for my characters. More complex motivations stem from these. The lower down the pyramid these needs are, the easier they are to understand and convey. The lack of one or more of these needs gives you motivations.
psychotick
Auror
Hi,
The Princess Bride - awesome book - especially for having the gall to name a princess - Princess Buttercup!
To the OP - yes its been done before - everything has. That doesn't matter. I'll echo what Feo has said. In The Lady's Man I had my hero setting off on a mission of vengeance against a dark wizard who mad murdered his entire family. It may not be original but little is and it was an excellent place to start a book. But also you can't just use a dead family and then have them gone from all writing. So I had a later chapter after he had completed a few early quests where he had to return and wind up the family home before setting off to war. And a lot of the other early chapters had the theme included in them of him learning to deal with his grief. And also the consequences to a paladin of having gone on a mission of vengeance.
It's not whether or not a plot device is derivative that matters. It's how well and usefully / realistically you use it.
Cheers, Greg.
The Princess Bride - awesome book - especially for having the gall to name a princess - Princess Buttercup!
To the OP - yes its been done before - everything has. That doesn't matter. I'll echo what Feo has said. In The Lady's Man I had my hero setting off on a mission of vengeance against a dark wizard who mad murdered his entire family. It may not be original but little is and it was an excellent place to start a book. But also you can't just use a dead family and then have them gone from all writing. So I had a later chapter after he had completed a few early quests where he had to return and wind up the family home before setting off to war. And a lot of the other early chapters had the theme included in them of him learning to deal with his grief. And also the consequences to a paladin of having gone on a mission of vengeance.
It's not whether or not a plot device is derivative that matters. It's how well and usefully / realistically you use it.
Cheers, Greg.
Addison
Auror
I LOVE The Princess Bride!
In all my favorite books I haven't seen death as the common factor. Like Penpilot said, it's the poor execution of the story that makes the motivation cliche. Death can often light a fire under a character's butt, whether or not the MC knew the dead character or not. (In some mystery books the dead guy usually isn't dead. ) All you need to ask yourself is "Will this work for my story? Will my story make it work?"
In all my favorite books I haven't seen death as the common factor. Like Penpilot said, it's the poor execution of the story that makes the motivation cliche. Death can often light a fire under a character's butt, whether or not the MC knew the dead character or not. (In some mystery books the dead guy usually isn't dead.
) All you need to ask yourself is "Will this work for my story? Will my story make it work?"
I imagine if you asked people in real life what their motivations are it would be some version of the following:
1. Provide for my family
2. Be successful in some way
3. Be healthy
4. Experience life (travel, find spirituality, discover themselves, etc.)
Not many people would say revenge. If that is someone's sole motivation in life, to get revenge, it rings a bit hollow. However, for the purposes of a story, I can't think of a stronger motivator than revenge. That is why it's used so often. Something like Kill Bill is one of the most awesome revenge stories ever put to the screen in my opinion. A former lover tries to kill an assassin trying to get out of the business because she's pregnant. She kills everyone in her path, including those present, to reach him. Simple, yet effective. While this "idea" sound cliche in principal, Tarrantino executes it to perfection. From what I understand of Abercrombie's Best Served Cold, it's also a sort of revenge story (it's not really a spoiler since the title is a pretty good indicator). I've heard it's one of his strongest books. I have it here with me, but it's in hardcover--I tend to wade through my hardcovers at a snail's pace.
Some may disagree, but that is why ideas can be cliche all day long for me. In the hands of a capable artist, even the most cliche of ideas can be wonderful. If someone wants to tell a story about parents getting killed and then a character seeking revenge, why not? If you can write a convincing, engaging story with this idea, do it. If it feels shoehorned and just a way to get your character "moving" so to speak, perhaps a better motivator should be put in place.
1. Provide for my family
2. Be successful in some way
3. Be healthy
4. Experience life (travel, find spirituality, discover themselves, etc.)
Not many people would say revenge. If that is someone's sole motivation in life, to get revenge, it rings a bit hollow. However, for the purposes of a story, I can't think of a stronger motivator than revenge. That is why it's used so often. Something like Kill Bill is one of the most awesome revenge stories ever put to the screen in my opinion. A former lover tries to kill an assassin trying to get out of the business because she's pregnant. She kills everyone in her path, including those present, to reach him. Simple, yet effective. While this "idea" sound cliche in principal, Tarrantino executes it to perfection. From what I understand of Abercrombie's Best Served Cold, it's also a sort of revenge story (it's not really a spoiler since the title is a pretty good indicator). I've heard it's one of his strongest books. I have it here with me, but it's in hardcover--I tend to wade through my hardcovers at a snail's pace.
Some may disagree, but that is why ideas can be cliche all day long for me. In the hands of a capable artist, even the most cliche of ideas can be wonderful. If someone wants to tell a story about parents getting killed and then a character seeking revenge, why not? If you can write a convincing, engaging story with this idea, do it. If it feels shoehorned and just a way to get your character "moving" so to speak, perhaps a better motivator should be put in place.
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BWFoster78
Myth Weaver
In order for a character motivation to work, it has to resonate with the reader.
In order for the motivation to resonate with the reader, the situation behind the motivation has to be relatable.
If a siutation is relatable, it probably means that the situation lies within the experience of the reader.
If a situation lies within the experience of the reader, it's not unique.
Therefore, it seems illogical to believe that you can come up with a unique situation to convey character motivation. Stop worrying so much about being cliche and work on being authentic from your character's POV.
In order for the motivation to resonate with the reader, the situation behind the motivation has to be relatable.
If a siutation is relatable, it probably means that the situation lies within the experience of the reader.
If a situation lies within the experience of the reader, it's not unique.
Therefore, it seems illogical to believe that you can come up with a unique situation to convey character motivation. Stop worrying so much about being cliche and work on being authentic from your character's POV.
There's a good reason this motivation is particularly common when you have a protagonist who is not yet an adult at the start of a story. It pushes them into a more autonomous role. If the parents are around, the reader would rightly wonder "what about their parents?" when the protagonist gets into trouble. Not only is there an expectation (unless otherwise explained) that parents would help in whatever trouble the protagonist encounters, but also that they'll have greater resources, experience, etc. So having the protagonist be an orphan is a clean way to get rid of all of those considerations in a single stroke. As for cliche - there is no idea that a great writer can't make fresh and new or, barring that, at least make work
psychotick
Auror
Hi Phil,
I agree. Revenge is a poor way to live a life. But for short periods of time it can drive a life as nothing else. The reason they say revenge is a dish best served cold is that taking your revenge when you're still consumed by the emotion is likely to lead you to make mistakes. It's also likely to be something that will come back to bite you emotionally. If you wait you'll make less mistakes and be in a place where you know that this is truly the course you want to take - i.e. be less likely to regret it later.
Cheers, Greg.
I agree. Revenge is a poor way to live a life. But for short periods of time it can drive a life as nothing else. The reason they say revenge is a dish best served cold is that taking your revenge when you're still consumed by the emotion is likely to lead you to make mistakes. It's also likely to be something that will come back to bite you emotionally. If you wait you'll make less mistakes and be in a place where you know that this is truly the course you want to take - i.e. be less likely to regret it later.
Cheers, Greg.
- Thread starter
- #12
Joe the Gnarled
Sage
Thank you all for the input, it has been most helpful.
