Cliche Sells

[Peat]

That, I would say, is a highly subjective statement.

Could you please explain why?

 

[Vaporo]

I forget where I heard this, but:

"A cliche done poorly is derivative and boring. A cliche done well is a classic."

 

[thequillwitch]

Cliches, tropes, archetypes. One or the other, people will always be drawn to them. Humans prefer that which is familiar, that which they know, what resonates with them. Like a child that always want to read their favorite book. It´s comforting.
Of course there is also room for your own personal touch/twist. And that, my friend is where the fun begins! And where the money is to be had!
Don´t despair. Keep writing.

 

[WazpByte]

Honestly, I'd say, that the problem with cliche is that it's too boring. Sure, it sells, but that's because the vast majority of your readers are not going to be experts in writing, and wont know these cliches. To them, it seems original. However, your fans, the ones you should care to please, will know every single cliche in the book. The thing is, the average American has read 12.3 fantasy series in their life. That's not enough to learn every cliche, so they'll not identify it. To the fans however, it'll be met with eyerolls and groans.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Having had more than my fair share of beer this evening, and high drama, I would have to say this is underestimating the reader. Normally I would throw in caveats of cliche vs trope vs archetype, but the reality is this: a high % of readers don't care about cliche even when they see it, pretty much no matter how you define cliche unless it is over the top. But here is the bigger thing, and this applies to cliches more so than tropes and archetypes... the latter are extremely effective... but here it comes...

The use of cliches in writing are a symptom not the disease. Stories do not fail because of containing a cliche here or there, they fail because of an underlying problem that spawns the use of cliche. If the writing is good it can handle a cliche here and there, nobody is going to give a damn. If the writing sucks, they're going to point to the cliches. And, when agents/publishers look at a MS sample and a cliche smacks them in the face, they will automatically assume it's a symptom to a greater disease and will in most cases be correct.

Hence a weather opening is liable to get your MS tossed in the scrap heap. Or one of another hundred "ugh" moments agents/pubs experience.

Honestly, I'd say, that the problem with cliche is that it's too boring. Sure, it sells, but that's because the vast majority of your readers are not going to be experts in writing, and wont know these cliches. To them, it seems original. However, your fans, the ones you should care to please, will know every single cliche in the book. The thing is, the average American has read 12.3 fantasy series in their life. That's not enough to learn every cliche, so they'll not identify it. To the fans however, it'll be met with eyerolls and groans.

 

[Holoman]

For me, what makes a great story is one that uses familiar tropes and cliches, but manages to be unpredictable.

The worst thing about clichés is they make a story predictable, nothing disappoints an audience more than them correctly guessing how it was going to end.

Audiences will generally forgive clichés if they are not overdone, they will even forgive the odd deus ex machina.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

This is at the least arguable when looking at human psychology. Deus ex machina is probably the most unforgivable there is, outside of just being plain bad, because in a great many instances these endings are flat stupid. Audiences are not turned off by predictability by all studies I've seen, in fact, in many cases knowing the ending enhances the experience... odd as that seems.

Endings need to make sense, that's the one rule of endings that rarely (if ever) gets broken effectively, heh heh. When they make sense, they are predictable, even if it is hindsight predictable.

The worst thing about clichés is they make a story predictable, nothing disappoints an audience more than them correctly guessing how it was going to end.

Audiences will generally forgive clichés if they are not overdone, they will even forgive the odd deus ex machina.

 

[Miskatonic]

This is at the least arguable when looking at human psychology. Deus ex machina is probably the most unforgivable there is, outside of just being plain bad, because in a great many instances these endings are flat stupid. Audiences are not turned off by predictability by all studies I've seen, in fact, in many cases knowing the ending enhances the experience... odd as that seems.

Endings need to make sense, that's the one rule of endings that rarely (if ever) gets broken effectively, heh heh. When they make sense, they are predictable, even if it is hindsight predictable.

When I see Deus ex machina I immediately discern that the author either couldn't write themselves out of the situation they put the characters in, or they are lazy and decided that it was "good enough".

I'll take a somewhat predictable ending to an ending where the author is trying to be clever and throwing in a million twists that just introduces one giant mess that creates more questions than answers.

 

[Holoman]

This is at the least arguable when looking at human psychology. Deus ex machina is probably the most unforgivable there is, outside of just being plain bad, because in a great many instances these endings are flat stupid. Audiences are not turned off by predictability by all studies I've seen, in fact, in many cases knowing the ending enhances the experience... odd as that seems.

Endings need to make sense, that's the one rule of endings that rarely (if ever) gets broken effectively, heh heh. When they make sense, they are predictable, even if it is hindsight predictable.

Yet, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter and War of the Worlds are three books that come to mind that have Deus Ex Machina yet are very popular. Depending on how obvious they are and how big of an impact they make will determine whether the audience overlooks them or not. You can usually get away with little things, but even War of the Worlds gets away with a huge one to resolve the whole story at the end.

I think there are different levels of predictability. Everyone for instance, can predict that James Bond will escape his captors and run off with some beautiful girl by the end of the film. But if I can predict exactly how he's going to do it then I am left totally underwhelmed and bored. There is no tension in a story if the audience can see clearly the way out. The best books are the ones that resolve the situation in a way you never expected and then you realise the solution was under your nose the whole time.

 

[bdcharles]

Hmm, cliches, cliches. They probably do sell. But does that make we want a part of it? Not really. I derive no joy from writing in that way. That said, I am sure much writing - certainly my own - has cliches. My plot is not really anything new. But I like to try and present it all in a non-cliched way. I suppose it hinges on what is the hackneyed biut - the style, the plot, sonething else.

 

[Devora]

Without reading the other comments in the tread, I think you mean "tropes". Cliches are uninspired uses of tropes that feel utterly predictable. A trope can be a common story element, but if written well, it can be potent ammunition. I think with readers its more they want a since of something new yet familiar.

Basically, it feels like i know the path, but what the writer is showing me on this path, and how he guides me through the way, is the more interesting bit. Doing something unorthodox shouldn't be taboo, but yes, you do have to make it easily digestible for a market audience.

Admittingly, I do suffer from this as well. However, in my own defense, I'm not aware of what it is that i'm doing wrong. (Also if you could recommend me some of the books you're reading, i'd appreciate it; looking for new fiction to read. )

 

[Chessie]

Without reading the other comments in the tread, I think you mean "tropes". Cliches are uninspired uses of tropes that feel utterly predictable. A trope can be a common story element, but if written well, it can be potent ammunition. I think with readers its more they want a since of something new yet familiar.

Basically, it feels like i know the path, but what the writer is showing me on this path, and how he guides me through the way, is the more interesting bit. Doing something unorthodox shouldn't be taboo, but yes, you do have to make it easily digestible for a market audience.

Admittingly, I do suffer from this as well. However, in my own defense, I'm not aware of what it is that i'm doing wrong. (Also if you could recommend me some of the books you're reading, i'd appreciate it; looking for new fiction to read. )

Yes, I meant tropes not cliches. I was too lazy to change the title of the thread. Tropes. Definitely tropes.

The only fantasy book I read for this exercise was To Whatever End by Claire Frank. The others were historical romance.