Ditching Romance and Sexual Tension

[Ghost]

I could see a pragmatic guy saying "I need a wife. She'll do." instead of wasting time when he's got a lot on his plate. It doesn't have to be love, especially if they both benefit from the marriage.

If she had an more important role in the first book than the second, I'd feel like she gets shunted off to fulfill the role of love interest. It's like the character gets demoted for becoming someone's wife. I only assumed that because you mentioned the love interest being "one-note" so I thought queen would have no real responsibilities.

So I'm glad to know you're considering the subplot. I don't think you need to write about something you dislike reading especially when you're not confident you can pull it off credibly. Work around it. You don't need romance and sexual tension if they're both driven people who have more important things to worry about (like direwolves, cults, and kingdoms). [ETA: or anihow's plan would work.]

So many fantasy protagonists find the time to mope about their true loves between battling the Dark Lord and learning magic...

It makes me wonder how focused they are on saving the world. :confused2:

 

[Amanita]

I have to agree with most of the others.
Fantasy stories don't have to include romance and if you don't want to have it in there, don't write it in. If there's enough interesting stuff happening, this shouldn't be a problem. I like well-done romance, but bad romance has actually ruined some books for me. Therefore better nothing than something bad in my opinion.
The story arc with your two main characters seems weird to me as well, however. If you're making a point about them not feeling any romantic attraction for each other, seeing them married in the second book would be quite off-putting to me. Putting in a few hints in the first book should be possible without taking too much time. They don't have to act on it or anything for that. If you don't want to do this, go the way anihow has suggested and get him another wife. This will fit much better than two characters suddenly marrying without any prior hints. Some people are very obsessed with romance and would probably be quite angry about this. It's getting really irrational in many fandoms, something I don't really understand but it's happening.

 

[Kit]

I like well-done romance, but bad romance has actually ruined some books for me. Therefore better nothing than something bad in my opinion.

+1. Personally I find that the stuff I enjoy writing comes out well, and the stuff that I don't enjoy writing is mediocre at best. So if you don't enjoy writing romance, I'd say don't force yourself... the story will probably be better if you stick to what you like to write.

I find it completely annoying when a story has all of the characters neatly paired off at the end, as if that's the only legitimate conclusion feasable.

 

[The Dark One]

Let me start by saying I've only skimmed this thread so others may have already said this...sorry.

If it's a story for adults and involves men AND women...ignore romance at your peril. Especially where people are drawn into some sort of adventure together they will inevitably be drawn together in romantic ways. It would a strange and unpithy couple that were not.

My other point relates to the milieu. In a tribal culture, the idea of a platonic relationship is, to my mind, far-fetched. Such cultures are not typically 'romantic' in the western sense and have very strongly defined gender roles which you also ignore at your peril.

Two nubile types from a tribal culture on a quest? They'd be at it like stoats!

 

[Jon_Chong]

I think we as a society has come to expect romance in our entertainment, no matter how far fetched and silly it might be. Take John Carter for example. The movie, I mean. The romance was by and large unbelievable and in my opinion, was the worse bit of the book. Coincidentally, the romance subplot in Hunger Games was nicely done. So what does this mean for you? Jack shit. Your book, your rules. If you don't want to add in romance, that is your prerogative. However, if you wish to have off screen development, you're in luck. It has been done, and it has been done by an extremely good author - though it should be said that his romance sub-plots are like sub plots of sub plots. Enter one Sir Terry Pratchett.

In Guards! Guards! You are introduced to Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin. A sort of romance happens between the alcoholic captain of the Night Watch and a woman built like a battering ram but in the entire book it gets no more than five scenes of development. Fast forward to the next book and you discover they are getting married. They eventually do, amidst the usual assassination attempts and thief chasing. About three more books later, it is announced that they are expecting except Sam is now being sent back in time to well... the rest is history. The point should be clear. Well, there appears to be two points here.

1.) You can have off-screen development, just squeeze in some mushy bits every now and again.
2.) No courtship is the same. Your king and queen and look each other in the eye and the end of the first book at the end of their adventures and say two words. "Shall we?" Then you can end the book with a wedding ceremony and a final kiss. Minimum mushy stuff and it allows for the rest of the development to happen off screen

Hope this helps

 

[Mindfire]

You're my hero.

One thing I think is being largely overlooked in this thread is WHY people marry. I mean, there's a difference between being friends with absolutely no romantic feelings, and being married. Trust me, this is a subject I know all about.

Wouldn't your king simply take a foreign princess for his wife? Then he could stay great friends with your other MC. Don't get me wrong, I married a prince who becomes king to a common woman in one of my stories, I'm just saying that if you don't feel comfortable writing their attraction to each other, the simple way to avoid it all would be to marry him to someone else so he can have his heirs, and allow the MCs to remain friends.

Maybe "king" is the wrong word. He's not a traditional king, more of a tribal chieftain. And the nation he rules is somewhat isolationist, so he couldn't just "marry a foreigner." Also, I want to avoid inventing a new character if possible. As for why they marry, well she's the one who welcomed him into a new culture, been his most faithful companion, hunted and fought side by side with him, pulled him out of the fire a couple times, etc. They have a very strong bond.

 

[Mindfire]

Let me start by saying I've only skimmed this thread so others may have already said this...sorry.

If it's a story for adults and involves men AND women...ignore romance at your peril. Especially where people are drawn into some sort of adventure together they will inevitably be drawn together in romantic ways. It would a strange and unpithy couple that were not.

My other point relates to the milieu. In a tribal culture, the idea of a platonic relationship is, to my mind, far-fetched. Such cultures are not typically 'romantic' in the western sense and have very strongly defined gender roles which you also ignore at your peril.

Two nubile types from a tribal culture on a quest? They'd be at it like stoats!

Well... not exactly. First off, my work is probably less "Adult" and more YA (or whatever category you'd put things like the Codex Alera into, since that's probably the closest work to my book in terms of tone and style, but the stories are worlds apart so its not a perfect match).

Anyway, the people in question here have great powers of self-control. A very mission-focused attitude that I assume would develop quickly when 90% of everything that lives with you in your home environment wants to kill you, herbivores and carnivores alike. Beyond that, some might even consider my protag sociopathic, but his only real sociopathic act is slaughtering a cult of child-killers with zero remorse, so YMMV on that one. Of course this ability to sublimate emotion is limited to a single ethnic group and doesn't always hold. In fact, one of the sympathetic villains becomes a villain because she can't separate her emotions from the issue at hand. (Her daughter is the cult leader. Hi-jinks ensue.)

Also, I think you have the wrong idea of platonic, or (more likely) I'm using the wrong word. I was envisioning a brothers-in-arms, "I've got your back" kind of thing. Because that's the kind of culture these two come from. Because in the area they live, they're constantly under threat of wild animals, there are fewer "defined gender roles" and more an attitude of "all hands on deck". The only really defined gender role is that a woman generally fills the role of spiritual authority, while a man fills the role of temporal authority, but there are exceptions.

 

[The Din]

You could always just castrate the bugger and be done with it.

As a guy, I've been 'falling in love' since i was eleven or twelve. If you plan on exploring the characters in depth, its going to be a lot harder without including this aspect at all. Just imagine yourself in your MC's body. Are you going to traipse around all day with a (beautiful/possibly topless) tribal woman and not admire her rump a time or two? (And/or try and tap that thang.)

Love and lust are a great way to influence you MCs and villains, to leave them asexual is to limit their motives and goals. (Plus, you'll lose all the twilight fans without a serious amount of angst.)

 

[Mindfire]

You could always just castrate the bugger and be done with it.

As a guy, I've been 'falling in love' since i was eleven or twelve. If you plan on exploring the characters in depth, its going to be a lot harder without including this aspect at all. Just imagine yourself in your MC's body. Are you going to traipse around all day with a (beautiful/possibly topless) tribal woman and not admire her rump a time or two? (And/or try and tap that thang.)

Love and lust are a great way to influence you MCs and villains, to leave them asexual is to limit their motives and goals. (Plus, you'll lose all the twilight fans without a serious amount of angst.)

The Twilight fans are the main group I wanted to troll.

 

[Caged Maiden]

I was envisioning a brothers-in-arms, "I've got your back" kind of thing. Because that's the kind of culture these two come from. Because in the area they live, they're constantly under threat of wild animals, there are fewer "defined gender roles" and more an attitude of "all hands on deck".

Well that clears it up for me. If I was a strong woman (young or other) in a society where women and men live and work alongside each other, and I went on an adventure with my dear friend and chieftain... I'd have problems keeping my hands to myself. But then, I've always suffered from impulse control problems.

 

[Christopher Wright]

Romance is icky. Kissin' and stuff.

...

... what I mean to say is, I think it depends entirely on the story you want to tell. If you're writing a bodice-ripper then it's sort of mandatory. In other types of stories, it can be used well and can show unexpected sides of a character. Take a man who is a blood-crazed killer on the battlefield, feared by his men, and then put him in a situation where his love for a woman makes him gentle and thoughtful toward her, perhaps even engaging in poetry of all things, and you have a slightly less mono-dimensional character. Have two characters who are drawn to each other but are also competitive and willful, and as a result are constantly bickering and needling each other, and you have the potential for a humorous subplot throughout the story.

On the other hand, it isn't necessary, and if the work exceeds the reward it might be better to yank it out and have a leaner, faster-moving story as a result.

 

[Jabrosky]

In my current story-in-progress, The Elephant's Scimitar, my male and female lead are already married. I don't know how important their relationship will be in the story as I'm writing it as I go.

 

[Elder the Dwarf]

Not that another opinion is needed, but I would say that one book without any romance is fine. However, if you have multiple books with none whatsoever, people are going to start asking what the hell is going on.

 

[Mindfire]

Well that clears it up for me. If I was a strong woman (young or other) in a society where women and men live and work alongside each other, and I went on an adventure with my dear friend and chieftain... I'd have problems keeping my hands to myself. But then, I've always suffered from impulse control problems.

Have two characters who are drawn to each other but are also competitive and willful, and as a result are constantly bickering and needling each other, and you have the potential for a humorous subplot throughout the story.

I think the two of you might be on to something. Like I said, if I'm being honest and not trolling, an impartial review of the facts makes it fairly obvious that these two are attracted to each other. The problem is that I don't know how to voice that, and neither does Reuben (protagonist). I have a sneaking suspicion that Maya (female companion) does, but she's not talking to me right now. Might have something to do with me not letting her express her feelings or some-such. She's being really passive-aggressive about it.

Aside from trolling, the reason I was thinking of avoiding the romance angle is that I don't want to pull a Disney, where you only have to know someone for five minutes to fall head-over-heels in love with them. I feel a transition from close companions to lifelong partners would be more believable. But I also have zero confidence in my ability to write romantic interaction. So I guess it's a wash. Truthfully, if I could acknowledge their mutual attraction in a way that didn't derail the book or create an unneeded subplot, I wouldn't mind terribly, although I'd have to give up my dreams of trollng lol. I actually liked the interaction between Batman and Wonder Woman in Justice League Unlimited, and I think these characters would get along similarly.

 

[Mindfire]

Not that another opinion is needed, but I would say that one book without any romance is fine. However, if you have multiple books with none whatsoever, people are going to start asking what the hell is going on.

Well my first book is the only one that has even the possibility of a romantic subplot. My ideas for sequels skip the idea entirely simply because of the direction the plot takes. I wasn't consciously trying to dis-include it. But I also wasn't searching for ways to insert romantic subplots into a story that focuses on things like world war, an arms race, a corrupt priesthood, and political upheaval. Romance kinda just got left out. Coincidentally, I just realized that as the plot progresses there seem to be fewer important female characters*. But that's probably because my notes exclusively follow the main character and I haven't figured out what's going on elsewhere just yet.

Oh, wait. I lied, sorry. I just remembered that book 2 does have a (possible) romantic subplot involving the protagonist's cousin and a minor character from the first book who returns in a more substantial role.


*(Book 1 has 6. Book 2 has 3, only two of whom I have a defined role/subplot for. Book 3 has between 2 and 5, depending on how I pick up the threads for characters from previous books. And I haven't really planned beyond book 3.)

 

[Penpilot]

I think if you want to deal with the mutual attraction with out actually having to deal with it or write the mushy stuff, all you have to do is hint at it. Maybe sprinkle instances, maybe three of them, where Reuben thinks about something he likes about Maya just sort of in passing as she's doing it: he respects her strength as she lifts something heavy, he admires her cunning as she tracks a deer, he's awed by her determination because she won't give up on a task. Stuff like that. There' aren't any mushy descriptions needed. Just matter of fact statements. Say enough times, without going overboard, that Reuben likes something about Maya, the reader will start connecting the dots and think he likes her, period. I don't think the story would have to say any more.

If you want to put a exclamation point on it, add in an awkward moment when they touch. Again no mushy descriptions needed. Just have them touch, meet eyes, then shy away, and maybe have one of them say something obviously stupid or non sequitur like "I like soup." and have the other play along for the response and then it's back to the story.

Just some thoughts... take them for what ever they're worth.

 

[Phin Scardaw]

In my writing, I make a point of avoiding romance and sexual tension, mostly for pragmatic reasons. Namely: I can't write either of them very well. But if I'm being totally honest, I'm also being a bit of a troll. I despise love triangles, token romances, and the like.

(the Star Wars prequels would have been greatly improved if the Padme/Anakin thing happened between movies instead of on the screen)

First of all, the only thing that could save those Star Wars movies is a tank of gasoline and a book of matches. I try to ignore their existence, even if I know that bad story-telling has value if only to demonstrate to others what NOT to do.

Second of all, stories tell you what they need. I starting writing about a couple of parents who were going to go on a quest to find a cure for their little boy who was stricken by some mysterious ailment. After the first draft the story said to me, "Nope, you know what - this is going to be a love triangle now!" and the little boy changed into an older brother. The woman was suddenly caught between the love she had for two men, and although she marries one, she has the adventure with the other. This added a whole new dimension of tension that would have been missing in the original draft, and the story grew into its present form. It's rather similar to your body telling you what it needs, such as when you experience cravings. You just need to learn how to listen. If there's a place for love, a need for its function, you will learn of it. I write stories that move around Love as one of the central themes, because it seems to be one of the great motivating forces of humankind.

Having said that, most fantasy stories are principally about Adventure. These bring out themes of courage and honour easily enough, but in a situation where the normal everyday lives of your characters have been interrupted by the adventure they've been thrust into, things like love and mortgage payments and laundry lists all go out the window. That's why it's very easy to write fantasy stories that can do quite well without love interests - these things usually only happen between people that have time to build relationships.

I would say that love and romance (and by extension, sexuality - although this is a dicey game to play!) is effective in a fantasy story only when the characters that begin their quest are already in love. A young man who goes traipsing off into other worlds will spend a lot of time thinking about and perhaps writing to a distant loved one that he longs to see again. Or someone who's lost a lover can become enraged and go on a quest for vengeance. These are useful to the writer, because they add tension to the stories, and the conflicts are internalized.

I remember Tanis in the DragonLance books had a heart that was divided between two women - but I think if I went back and read that over again I wouldn't find much depth in it. I mean on one hand he's got this elven princess, and on the other a dragonlord swordswoman who's aligned herself with the dark forces - it doesn't seem like a really tough choice and I know that those stories wouldn't lose much if that element of romance was removed.

On the other hand, I recall that I really liked how Peter Jackson and his team brought to the forefront of their retelling the love affair that Aragorn had with Arwen (which is nearly non-existent in the books). The flashbacks added depth to his character and really helped to raise the stakes. The pay-off when he sees her appear from behind a banner in Minas Tirith is one of the most powerful moments of the entire film trilogy. Also, The Matrix is a great example of how love can empower a hero who otherwise has nothing to live for.

 

[Mindfire]

First of all, the only thing that could save those Star Wars movies is a tank of gasoline and a book of matches. I try to ignore their existence, even if I know that bad story-telling has value if only to demonstrate to others what NOT to do.

I actually LIKE the Star Wars Prequels. I'm part of that generation that grew up with them. I was like 4 when the Phantom Menace came out. First Star Wars movie I ever saw. After that one I had to see them all. Also, the prequels are partly responsible for giving us Genndy Tartakovsky's Clone Wars, also known as the MOST EPIC STAR WARS RELATED THING EVER.

I'll read the rest of your post now.

 

[Caged Maiden]

It sounds a whole lot like the sort of love story between your two characters is an immature one, forming out of a friendship and respect. That could be a whole lot of fun to write. I think you should think of a handful of good ways to show their attraction, and write them. Then when it feels right, fit them in and don't feel pressured to use every single one. You can change what you need to later. I think if you've built these characters to be disciplined, you need not go overboard with the passion, just hint that they like each other. Smiles and kind gestures are where it all starts (unless you write like me, then just have someone sneak into someone else's tent under the guise of borrowing something.....)

 

[Ankari]

Love stories tend to take too much away from a fantasy novel, especially when every movie lately is about a women torn between two men (Hunger Games and Twilight, though I never watched Twilight). The novel slips from the unimaginable to the mundane. Our lives our full of love triangles, can we please get back to epic fantasy?

Sorry about that. When I conjure Twilight I get irritable. I've seen some love stories done well, but only when it doesn't over power the story I want to read. I think that when the story is about "Two guys and a girl......" I immediately lose interest (just like those who hate the prologue ). Make sure you story is about "A women, trusting only her daggers and wits, uncovers a plot that will bring chaos to her city." That is a story I want to read. If she bumps into some hobo in the middle of the story that is attracted to her, fine. Let's just see if she is capable at her task.