Is magic always "Fireball Throwing"?

[Sheilawisz]

In my world magic always has a price. The energy has to come from somewhere. I see a wizard as more of a channel for magical energy than as a huge magical battery. And magical energy isn't limitless.

So Harry Potter, or D&D style magical combat is simply not possible. The kind of energy for those battles simply wouldn't be available.

Well, in my Fantasy the Mages are an unlimited source of magic: They can fly at hypersonic speeds without effort, make castles and countries appear out of nowhere and throw one magical nuke after another without a care in the world... I don't care at all to explain anything from a logical or scientific point of view, and reading what everyone is writing in this thread about magic is a very strange and sometimes amusing experience for me...

You all would read my works, shake your heads in desbelief and say "that's impossible" over and over again, and I know that's bad for Fantasy stories because most readers want everything to be realistic... but now I am happy with it!! I love my Fantasy anyway =)

 

[Wormtongue]

Well, in my Fantasy the Mages are an unlimited source of magic: They can fly at hypersonic speeds without effort, make castles and countries appear out of nowhere and throw one magical nuke after another without a care in the world... I don't care at all to explain anything from a logical or scientific point of view, and reading what everyone is writing in this thread about magic is a very strange and sometimes amusing experience for me...

You all would read my works, shake your heads in desbelief and say "that's impossible" over and over again, and I know that's bad for Fantasy stories because most readers want everything to be realistic... but now I am happy with it!! I love my Fantasy anyway =)

I wouldn't try to talk you out of your own ideas of what magic should be, but let me give you something to think about.

You may enjoy the power of doing anything anytime, but it will be boring to the reader. Readers don't require realism in fantasy, but they require struggle. Where is the opportunity for struggle in a world where every mage has unlimited power?

But here is a thought... What if the mages were accustomed to having all that power, and somebody found a way to turn it off? Now you have a great opportunity for struggle. The mages who were used to having everything now have nothing, and they must find out what happened and undo it.

 

[Janga]

I'm sure this has been said over and over, but I like my magic to be subtle and mysterious... something that only certain people in the world possess and use rarely, and is frightening and exotic to those that cannot use it.

 

[Sheilawisz]

I wouldn't try to talk you out of your own ideas of what magic should be, but let me give you something to think about.

You may enjoy the power of doing anything anytime, but it will be boring to the reader. Readers don't require realism in fantasy, but they require struggle. Where is the opportunity for struggle in a world where every mage has unlimited power?

But here is a thought... What if the mages were accustomed to having all that power, and somebody found a way to turn it off? Now you have a great opportunity for struggle. The mages who were used to having everything now have nothing, and they must find out what happened and undo it.

In my stories, the struggle comes because I have several different cultures and societies of Mages that fight each other =) They live in different cities and even different worlds, so the stories are about mages vs mages (all of them evil, by the way!!) and I do create good conflict... Your idea about turning off magic is good and would work in another story, but not in mine because my magic comes out of nowhere and is unlimited!! It's not like the Force in Star Wars or other magic systems like that, but those systems are fun too.

Janga: That style of subtle and mysterious magic has something fascinating about it indeed, totally different to mine but I really like it... What I don't like is when people want to view magic like it was science =( By the way, welcome both of you to Mythic Scribes!!

 

[ThinkerX]

In my stories, the struggle comes because I have several different cultures and societies of Mages that fight each other =) They live in different cities and even different worlds, so the stories are about mages vs mages (all of them evil, by the way!!) and I do create good conflict...

Groups of super powerful evil mages clashing with one another on a frequent basis?

You do realize, that after a century or two of this sort of behaviour, the vast bulk of your world(s) will be empty, dead wastelands, with the odd wizard here and there ruling over fightened savages and monsters.

The other thing you're not taking into account is the backlash. Here on earth, even ill confirmed accounts of relatively wimpy magicians was enough to start off inquistions and witch burnings that saw a great many people killed. Wizards who behave the way you describe would not be truly greeted with open arms *anywhere*, there would *always* be somebody looking to stick a mundane knife in their back or drop a dollop of extra strength poison in their wine cup. Probably, there would be a large organization, secret or otherwise, doing that sort of thing.

 

[Neurosis]

I found it interesting that Ursula le Guin straddled both these paradigms in her Earthsea quartet. Magic is both subtle and at times obvious and terrifying. As such I think there is much to be said for blending the two approaches.

 

[Wormtongue]

I found it interesting that Ursula le Guin straddled both these paradigms in her Earthsea quartet. Magic is both subtle and at times obvious and terrifying. As such I think there is much to be said for blending the two approaches.

It boils down to the right magic at the right moment. Sometimes the appropriate magic is spectatular and sometimes it's almost imperceptible. The key is to use magic the way that best advances the story.

A mage faces 10 orcs. What is the "best" magic to use?

"With a wave of his hand the sorcerer decimated the orcs in a huge ball of fire."

"The sorcerer backed into the alcove and with a few murmured words faded into the stone. The band of orcs marched past oblivious to the mage."

Either could be best. Or neither. It all depends on the story.

 

[Sheilawisz]

Groups of super powerful evil mages clashing with one another on a frequent basis?

You do realize, that after a century or two of this sort of behaviour, the vast bulk of your world(s) will be empty, dead wastelands, with the odd wizard here and there ruling over fightened savages and monsters.

The other thing you're not taking into account is the backlash. Here on earth, even ill confirmed accounts of relatively wimpy magicians was enough to start off inquistions and witch burnings that saw a great many people killed. Wizards who behave the way you describe would not be truly greeted with open arms *anywhere*, there would *always* be somebody looking to stick a mundane knife in their back or drop a dollop of extra strength poison in their wine cup. Probably, there would be a large organization, secret or otherwise, doing that sort of thing.

Hello ThinkerX!! Well, you would need to read my stories to know how everything works: My mages have sometimes attacked cities of the common people, but that is not something that happens on a frequent basis =) When mages fight other mages it takes place in their own cities and even inside castles, and since they throw their attacks at each other (also, everything there has a very powerful magical protection) the destruction is limited- Worlds have been destroyed in large, legendary wars that happened long ago, but they are not nuking cities every now and then...

Something else that is different in my stories is that the Mages do not rule over the common people, they just don't care and they let the people have their own Queens (the mages live apart in cities and societies of their own) When they visit the cities and towns of common people, they are sometimes feared and sometimes greeted =) The people are totally defenseless against Magic anyway, and all common weapons, from simple swords to heavy artillery fire and missiles, have failed against Mages

 

[Sheilawisz]

Wormtongue, I agree totally with you on that point: It's not that subtle magic is better than blasty style magic or the huge destructive power better than Gandalf style, because each Fantasy story is different and a Fantasy writer needs to use the style of magic that best adapts to the story, the worlds and the characters =)

Personally I like both styles, but I go for the blasty kind you know...

A mage faces 10 orcs. What is the "best" magic to use?

Now, no disrespect, I really mean no offense but I laughed a lot after reading that part!! It shows me again how different I think to other Fantasy writers out there and how different our stories and worlds are... What about this: Let's throw the same ten orcs against a 3'4'' 27lbs seven years old girl without magic!! That starts to sound more logical to me =)

 

[Telcontar]

Groups of super powerful evil mages clashing with one another on a frequent basis?

You do realize, that after a century or two of this sort of behaviour, the vast bulk of your world(s) will be empty, dead wastelands, with the odd wizard here and there ruling over fightened savages and monsters.

Sounds like a helluva good setting for some stories to me!

 

[Sheilawisz]

Thanks, Telcontar!! =)

 

[Hans]

A mage faces 10 orcs. What is the "best" magic to use?

Depends very much on what the mage is able to do. Both your examples have spontaneous effects. That is a tactical rather than strategical view on magic. Most modern day phantasy has this, maybe it is what the modern reader expects.

In a renaissance epos like for example Orlando Furioso the mage would do the same as all his friends: Point his lance towards the opponent and charge. To work magic this guy has to retreat for at least a day and make deal with some spirits.
Not flashy and not very useful in a tactical combat situation, but could very well give the edge in a strategical plot.

 

[Steerpike]

In a renaissance epos like for example Orlando Furioso the mage would do the same as all his friends: Point his lance towards the opponent and charge. To work magic this guy has to retreat for at least a day and make deal with some spirits.
Not flashy and not very useful in a tactical combat situation, but could very well give the edge in a strategical plot.

I much prefer that sort of thing to mages who can just walk around spamming spells at will.

 

[Reaver]

A mage faces 10 orcs. What is the "best" magic to use?
QUOTE]

Please allow me to answer this question with another question: What does a mage do to an elephant with three balls?

 

[zizban]

Whatever magic you use, make sure it has rules. Make your magic casting characters figure out how to solve something within the rules.

 

[ThinkerX]

Groups of super powerful evil mages clashing with one another on a frequent basis?

You do realize, that after a century or two of this sort of behaviour, the vast bulk of your world(s) will be empty, dead wastelands, with the odd wizard here and there ruling over frightened savages and monsters.

Sounds like a helluva good setting for some stories to me!

Like so much else, its been done...best known example is probably the TSR 'Athas' or 'Dark Sun' books - where centuries of magical warfare turned grassland and forest into desert, and what little civilization remains is under the iron rule of the wizard kings.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

A mage faces 10 orcs. What is the "best" magic to use?

Please allow me to answer this question with another question: What does a mage do to an elephant with three balls?

Walks him and pitches to the rhino.

 

[Ravana]

A mage faces 10 orcs. What is the "best" magic to use?

The one that gets rid of the smell fastest.

 

[Sheilawisz]

Well, since now everyone is having fun with the orcs question it's my turn!! =)

A mage faces 10 orcs. What is the "best" magic to use?

I already hinted before that this question seems really funny to me, because in my worlds it lacks of sense completely: Any little girl from the common people, without magic, could easily take on ten orcs and tear off their faces (at around 3'4'' and 27lbs she would be strong enough to lift a car and attack faster than a lynx... with claws strong enough to shatter rock) before they can touch her =)

Now, if her 12' tall and 1580lbs dad shows up, the orcs would stand a better chance against a dragon!! These are the common people in my worlds, there are no humans... Back to the original question about what style of magic would be best, if the orcs met a Mage she would just turn them into cookies in a whirl of violet sparks, put them inside a bag of her cloak and eat them later, and when that moment comes they would be conscious and they would feel her teeth and everything.

Ravana, the joke about the smell was fun =)

 

[Reaver]

Walks him and pitches to the rhino.

Thank you! I'm glad some one got it! Now, what does a mage do to a fire giant with a full count?