My Query for an Editor

[BWFoster78]

One of the biggest challenges of self publishing is finding the right professionals that can help you within you budget. The post below is my proposed query for editors. Assuming I meet my writing goals this week, I'm going to post it on Elance next Monday.

I'd welcome any thoughts.

Dear Potential Future Editor,

I’m looking for help with my novel, Rise of the Mages. Here are some of the particulars:

- Genre — epic fantasy
- Length — 120k to 125k
- Budget - $600 to $800 (if I’ve done my math right, that’s around 6 cents/word or $1.45/page)
- Schedule — I’ll have the manuscript to you on June 1, and I want the edits returned to me on July 1.

What I’m looking for (uh, that for which I am looking?):

I went back and forth a bunch of times on if I wanted another developmental/structural edit or a copy edit or what. Then, I had a revelation — you’re the expert on editing, not me. You tell me what kind of edit I need.

What I need is an editor who can help me accomplish my goals, whatever form that may take:

Goal 1 — I want to get my readers fired.

Picture this: it’s midnight, and you’ve got to get up at 5am to go to work. But you’re reading a book. A good book. You say, “One more chapter.” Before you know it, it’s 3am.

I want my book to be that much of a page-turner.

Goal 2 — I want to embarrass my readers.

Have you ever been reading in an airport and started laughing so much that everyone looked at you funny? How about that time at the beach when you had to choke back sobs (not that I, as a big, strong man have ever experienced such…)?

I want my book to make my readers feel that much.

Few books I’ve read have met those criteria, and I fully understand that, as a debut author, mine is unlikely to reach quite those heights. The important thing is that my writing moves in that direction.

Do you possess:

- The knowledge of how my objectives are accomplished on a theoretical basis? AND
- The experience to determine what practical edits can be made on my book that will most help it accomplish them?

If so, you are probably my future editor. Please take a look at my attached first chapter and provide me your thoughts. I’ll make my determination based on who I think will best be able to help my book within my allotted budget.

Thanks.

Brian

 

[buyjupiter]

Ok. First thing that popped out at me was the rate you're willing to pay. I googled "freelance editing rates" and found the following rates:

Basic copyediting: $30-$40/5-10 mss pages
Heavy copyediting: $40-$50/2-6 mss pages
Developmental editing: $45-$55/1-6 mss pages

So, my first question is, why the lowball figure? If you want proper editing, you're going to have to pay pro amounts for that.

Also, if it were me, a month's time allotted to potentially do anything and everything up to and including developmental editing (with the back and forth via email that that contains), I'd pass on the project.

My two biggest concerns here are:

The tone of your letter AND the expectations you put upon an editor you're not willing to pay market rates for.

I don't do this for free, for friends. I can't imagine anyone who makes an income out of editing taking this very seriously.

I might, if it were me, check the tone of the letter (it's fine to be excited about your work) and seriously reconsider the points above.

Hope that helps!

 

[buyjupiter]

I might try a letter that was more along the following lines (for a query):

Dear Future Editor:

I have an epic fantasy novel [title] that is 125k words [or whatever more closely resembles your word count--be exact here [i.e. 123k words], don't give a range. If you give a range, it sounds like you don't know what you're doing and you wrote the thing!] that I would like you [editor's name] to help me copy edit. I have seen your fees for [x-type of copy editing] and wondered if we could negotiate a price to fit within my budget for editing costs.

I would like a basic copy edit [or whatever], with any notes on overall structural problems if you felt that there were any major issues. [Basically, by asking an editor to determine what kind of copy editing should be done, you're opening yourself up to being charged the highest rates, when that may not be what you need. Have you had a beta reader or two go over the novel? What have they said were your biggest "issues"?]

If you feel like this would be a good fit for you, please let me know. If not, is there anyone you would recommend?

Thank you for your time and consideration,
[signed your name]

The tone above ^^ is far more professional, exact in knowing what needs to be done, and open to suggestion--while also getting to your goals of fitting within a budget. (Asking an editor if you hit the mark re: emotional connection is only something I would bring up with the person(s) who were most likely to be my editor, once I'd established the working relationship.)

I hope that gives y'all a clearer idea of what I meant. (Also, do a basic google search about "query letters" and slightly modify a form letter. No, it's not exciting and it won't set you apart; but it also won't kill your reputation either. If the options are boring, but polite or "exciting" and potentially coming across as aggressive, I'd take the boring every time.)

 

[Caged Maiden]

I've never worked as a professional editor, but this letter doesn't strike me as particularly professional in nature. The tone is rather too informal and the familiarity of it wouldn't impress me if I took my work seriously as an editor.

I would think something more on the order of, "This is my project and I have these specific concerns about its overall quality" would probably sound more respectful. I've only contacted a few editors, but does a writer expect to set the rate? I'd think this is one of those industries where you get what you pay for, and the lady I'm working with is very reasonable at $2/pg. for content editing. I know she charges for each pass, as well, so if you're looking to do reworking, you may end up having to pay twice.

When I contacted the editor, she was very friendly and told me that any editor worth working with will offer to do a small sample edit (ten pages/ first chapter/ 3k words/ etc.) for free, to sample their work and style. I'd imagine you might want to research individual editors rather than sending a letter expressing your wants so explicitly. Professional editors will want to go back and forth in emails and gain an understanding of your needs before quoting you a price. In fact, mine offered to read my whole book so she could tell me exactly what she thought it needed, so I could save money if a full content edit wasn't warranted.

If this were a net you're casting, or bait on your hook, what are you hoping to catch with it? I think buyjupiter is absolutely right in her concerns. Check with editors you actually want to work with. Some will offer you discounts if you pay in advance (after the sample you agree is what you are looking for) and that can save you a lot of money (my editor takes off 20% if you pay in advance, or if you send her a second project). Good editors cost a bit because they're worth it. I'd be very hesitant to screen editors from a big pool of people who may not be experienced in editing fantasy novels for general consumption. I met my editor through a writer who is prolific and has a good career. Word of mouth and reputations are kinda priceless in this sort of industry, not who will work within a set budget. I'd think maybe hold off until you can throw another couple hundred dollars into just getting one of the reputable editors available, one you have a desire to work with.

 

[Steerpike]

BWFoster is talking about using Elance, and I think the tone of the letter is good for that service. My suggestion would be to thoroughly research someone before hiring them there. A lot of people from all over the world use that site, and I know of at least one person who hired an editor there who turned out not even to be a native English speaker and didn't do a very good job. I do think the budget is low for a full content edit for a work of that length, but it's not worth even spending that if you end up with someone who doesn't know what they're doing.

 

[BWFoster78]

Steerpike,

I think, perhaps, you're more familiar with Elance than the other two posters.

My previous experience with Elance was that it is a buyer's market. There are a lot of editors offering services, which drives down the prices.

The bad thing is that a lot of the editors have pretty much no clue what they're doing. My biggest concern by far is that I end up paying that much money and get no value add in return.

The first time around, I chose based on the sample edit, and the editor, I think, did a fantastic job.

I'm not sure, however, why I was so successful:

1. I got lucky.
2. I'm extraordinarily skilled at determining what editor to pick based on a sample edit.
3. My writing was so bad that any editor that halfway knew what the crap they were talking about would have done well.

I'm actually leaning toward option 3, so I am approaching this process with more than a fair amount of trepidation.

 

[BWFoster78]

So, my first question is, why the lowball figure? If you want proper editing, you're going to have to pay pro amounts for that.

I paid $550 for my developmental edit for the same novel (approximately same word count). My per word rate also isn't out of line with what I see being advertised on Goodreads.

I think you have tiers of editors. The top tier ones charge a lot more than I'm willing to pay.

Here's the way I look at it: By the time I hit "Publish" on Amazon, I'm going to be into this book for around $1500. I'm not sure of my chances of making my money back, but I'm not super optimistic about it. This is a learning experience. I think that, if I do my homework, the editor I choose will teach me enough to make the $700 or so worth it. If not, that will be a lesson in and of itself.

Also, if it were me, a month's time allotted to potentially do anything and everything up to and including developmental editing (with the back and forth via email that that contains), I'd pass on the project.

I think you live in an editing world that is completely separate from that which exists on Elance. In my, admittedly limited, experience, editors are available immediately and usually only take a couple of weeks.

The tone of your letter AND the expectations you put upon an editor you're not willing to pay market rates for.

As far as I know, you are a consummate professional and know what the crap you're doing. I'm not getting the sense, however, that you're knowledgeable about the marketplace that I'm using. Again, my experience seems contrary to what you're telling me.

My biggest concern is in trying to wade through all the probable offers I'm going to get in order to find the person who will provide me the best value for my money.

Thanks for the response, though.

Brian

 

[Steerpike]

@BWFoster:

I did freelance writing for a few years, and for probably a year and a half did quite a bit of work through Elance, before the prices became so depressed that it wasn't worth doing for the most part (though that can be good from the buyer's perspective, of course).

You can get someone good at a reasonable price, it's just a matter of finding the right person among the ones who aren't so good. Samples are good. Feedback is also good. If the person has industry experience outside of Elance, that's nice as well. If you found a good one for $550, I think that's great. Is there a way to contact people who have used the editor previously based on profiles that have left feedback? The site has changed a lot since I used it and I'm not sure what functionality they have anymore.

 

[BWFoster78]

@BWFoster:

I did freelance writing for a few years, and for probably a year and a half did quite a bit of work through Elance, before the prices became so depressed that it wasn't worth doing for the most part (though that can be good from the buyer's perspective, of course).

You can get someone good at a reasonable price, it's just a matter of finding the right person among the ones who aren't so good. Samples are good. Feedback is also good. If the person has industry experience outside of Elance, that's nice as well. If you found a good one for $550, I think that's great. Is there a way to contact people who have used the editor previously based on profiles that have left feedback? The site has changed a lot since I used it and I'm not sure what functionality they have anymore.

I'm not sure.

The problem with the feedback approach, however, is evaluating the reliability of the feedback.

I think I desire something specific that a lot of other authors don't necessarily look for. Perhaps, and I could be wrong, a lot of authors are pretty happy with a basic copy edit where the editor tells them how to adhere to the Chicago Manual of Style.

I'm not sure that positive feedback from those authors would do much for me...

 

[buyjupiter]

I paid $550 for my developmental edit for the same novel (approximately same word count). My per word rate also isn't out of line with what I see being advertised on Goodreads.

I think you have tiers of editors. The top tier ones charge a lot more than I'm willing to pay.

Here's the way I look at it: By the time I hit "Publish" on Amazon, I'm going to be into this book for around $1500. I'm not sure of my chances of making my money back, but I'm not super optimistic about it. This is a learning experience. I think that, if I do my homework, the editor I choose will teach me enough to make the $700 or so worth it. If not, that will be a lesson in and of itself.

I think you live in an editing world that is completely separate from that which exists on Elance. In my, admittedly limited, experience, editors are available immediately and usually only take a couple of weeks.

As far as I know, you are a consummate professional and know what the crap you're doing. I'm not getting the sense, however, that you're knowledgeable about the marketplace that I'm using. Again, my experience seems contrary to what you're telling me.

My biggest concern is in trying to wade through all the probable offers I'm going to get in order to find the person who will provide me the best value for my money.

Thanks for the response, though.

Brian

I live in an editing world in which I cannot allow editing to take up all my time. I did a combination structural overview as well as passes with basic copyediting for a novel within two weeks. It just about killed me to do it within that time frame. I got no writing of my own done, other than some basic short story outlines/beginnings.

I did NOT get paid for that. That was part of a deal I had established elsewhere off site. If someone told me that I had to do more work (more words) and they weren't sure what they needed for the price you have budgeted? I'd laugh. I would not sell my time that cheaply.

Caged Maiden has hit something on the nose, though. If you can get someone to evaluate a sample of the novel, before money is exchanged, you'll get a much better sense of what they are capable of as an editor without giving the "prove it to me" vibe that I got from your letter. (Which is where I got a lot of the "non-professional" vibe from. As well as the word range statement, and the I'll leave it up to you to tell me what needs to be done bit.)

Being professional, no matter what the circumstances, will always serve you better than trying something non-professionally. If (what you and Steerpike are saying is the case is in fact true, which I don't doubt) then being professional will make you stand out--in a good way.

You get what you pay for is always an adage to keep in mind.

Writing is your business. Treat it as such! Research the heck out of what's actually available. Don't potentially shoot yourself in the foot by "settling" (or whatever is the case) for your budgeted amount if what you really need is pro-rates editing. Also, $700 is an expensive investment for one book, a little too expensive for a "mistake", don'tcha think?

 

[Svrtnsse]

Have you considered checking out Reedsy - Find Editors and Book Designers ? Someone from there posted about their site a few months back and it seems like it might be good. They're still building the page so it doesn't have all of the features yet, but it's got a searchable list of freelance editors where you can filter by genre.

I haven't delved into it too much as I'm not ready to go looking for an editor just yet, but once the time comes I'll at least look into it.

 

[BWFoster78]

buyjupiter,

I think that you and I will have to agree to disagree on what is "professional."

The tone of my query is meant to be funny and friendly. If that didn't come through, then I need to work on it. From your response, though, I'm not sure if you object to the funny and friendly part or not.

Understand, please, that I'm not sending my manuscript, in this scenario, to editors in the hopes that they'll accept my book. I'm trying to weed out editors who are going to be bidding to edit my book. From experience, I'm going to get innundated with offers from people who have do not have the ability to provide what I want. My theory in writing this query as I have is to try to define exactly what I want in terms of performance so that the editors who can provide what I want can clearly communicate that ability to me when they do their sample edit.

 

[BWFoster78]

Have you considered checking out Reedsy - Find Editors and Book Designers ? Someone from there posted about their site a few months back and it seems like it might be good. They're still building the page so it doesn't have all of the features yet, but it's got a searchable list of freelance editors where you can filter by genre.

I haven't delved into it too much as I'm not ready to go looking for an editor just yet, but once the time comes I'll at least look into it.

I've seen the posts advertising reedsy, but I'm going to try Elance first. If I don't get the response I need there, I'll probably give them a shot.

Thanks!

Brian

 

[Caged Maiden]

Just one thing to consider.

My editor service will cost me $1000 for a lady recommended to me by a talented writer who puts out four-five books a year in the romance genre, two with her publisher and two or three on her own. This isn't her editor, but an editor five of her friends (from YA to modern thriller to sci-fi) use and rave about. She was nice enough to talk to me for two months in emails, listening to my desires and my concerns for my novel's quality. She suggested I send her a full manuscript so she could assess it and it was her offer to do so to save me money.

When an edit is finished, she'll format it for ebook for $50. She charges $200-$400 for covers, but I think if I do some of the work, I can get a cover for less that I'm happy with.

Basically, at the end of this, I'll be about $1500 into my project too, and I don't feel at all that I had to sacrifice quality. So, I'm not trying to question all your decisions, because I'm not going to force anyone to "see it my way". I'm familiar with Elance, and even have a profile I did a couple years ago on it. I personally wouldn't go this route and this response is less about changing your mind, than it is about presenting my honest opinion for the benefit of others who might be in similar situations. There have been times in my life where I began something new, took a step toward something, and had no idea where to go or what to do. Writing has been loaded with those. From MY experiences and from speaking with other folks in my shoes, and reaching out to professional writers who make a living doing this, it is my understanding that professional-quality editing is one of the best investments a writer will ever make in their work. I don't doubt Elance has professional editors, but I KNOW it has loads of fakers who do mediocre jobs quickly. Anyone who uses that site should be careful and have some method for judging the quality of the work done. That's all. And I don't think a professional-sounding letter would be a mistake...ever. It sends a message about what you want. It seems to me that a joking letter might signify a customer might be more inclined to pay for a half-assed job. I wouldn't want to advertise that
in any way. If you want an editor who has worked with comedies and dramas before, consider just stating that.

Sorry you and I never agree. Nothing personal. We have different methods, and I'm not about to argue the details, but I wonder, if you're willing to part with $700 for this Elance editor, why not talk to a lady like mine for a couple hundred more? $2/ pg. would run you like $900.

 

[BWFoster78]

I don't doubt Elance has professional editors, but I KNOW it has loads of fakers who do mediocre jobs quickly. Anyone who uses that site should be careful and have some method for judging the quality of the work done.

Contrary to your statements below, I completely agree with you here. (So I guess we disagree about disagreeing )

To be clear, the reason I'm choosing the Elance route is because I believe that I will be able to evaluate, based on sample edits and responses to my query, an editor's ability to provide what I want.

Of course, there is some level of trepidation and doubt on my part. If I'm taken in by someone who tells me what I want to hear, I may be out $700.

I'm willing to risk that money because I'm betting on my ability.

On a larger scale, I'm betting $1500 on my ability to produce a debut novel that is worth that kind of money.

And I don't think a professional-sounding letter would be a mistake...ever. It sends a message about what you want. It seems to me that a joking letter might signify a customer might be more inclined to pay for a half-assed job.

Look, I'm a professional engineer working in a professional environment. I get paid a really decent wage to do what I do.

I just don't see any issue with the tone of my letter.

We will definitely have to agree to disagree on that point.

Truthfully, the editor that I want is one who responds well to a "fun and friendly" vibe.

but I wonder, if you're willing to part with $700 for this Elance editor, why not talk to a lady like mine for a couple hundred more? $2/ pg. would run you like $900.

I truthfully don't know why I would think that the lady you're using is going to be any better than who I find on Elance.

If, based on the sample edit and response to my query, I don't find anyone who I think will work, I will pursue other avenues.

The advantage of Elance is that I will get a lot of responses. Last time (if memory serves), I got like 10. Of those, I thought that 2 were pretty darn good editors, and I ended up getting a great return on my money.

Thanks for the response.

Brian

 

[skip.knox]

This is a useful conversation, as I'm just starting a search for an editor. I'm not choosing the Elance route. I've had a look at Reedsy and right now it looks like mostly enthusiasm and promise. Perhaps not fair for a startup, but there it is.

Which leaves me poking around more or less at random. I have two novellas that need an editor. I'm using them as a way to shop relationships, so when my major novel is done, I'll be working with someone I know I like.

 

[Svrtnsse]

I have two novellas that need an editor. I'm using them as a way to shop relationships, so when my major novel is done, I'll be working with someone I know I like.

This seems like a really good idea. Now I just need to write some novellas.

 

[BWFoster78]

This is a useful conversation, as I'm just starting a search for an editor. I'm not choosing the Elance route. I've had a look at Reedsy and right now it looks like mostly enthusiasm and promise. Perhaps not fair for a startup, but there it is.

Which leaves me poking around more or less at random. I have two novellas that need an editor. I'm using them as a way to shop relationships, so when my major novel is done, I'll be working with someone I know I like.

For some reason, reedsy doesn't open in my browser, and I'm too lazy to try it in Chrome

I think the novella idea is smart. Your overall investment will be small for each, and it gives you a chance to test the waters.

I hope that I eventually develop a relationship with an editor and stick with that person. Right now, I'm trying to go with a lot of different people and learn what I can from each.

 

[Caged Maiden]

I knew you weren't going to like my response. We so rarely find ourselves on the same side of any issue. I do hope however your experience turns out, you let the scribes here know. Elance may be a better place than some folks know (like me, who didn't have any success finding someone to do my website) and it might help other writers out to know how this works or doesn't. I know elance has methods for ensuring the work is done to your satisfaction before you pay, but they also have methods to prevent employees getting stiffed. I'm not sure how those things work (since I didn't end up hiring someone to design my website), but I'd caution everyone to go have a look at it first, just to be familiar with the process of approval and payment.

About the tone of the letter. If you love the letter, why ask for people's opinions? To me personally, it isn't witty (which would capture my attention as a fun person), but pretentious and un-serious. But, I know a plain letter is very vanilla. It's real estate white. I get that. I'm not arguing that bland is king, but it doesn't evoke negative or positive, and I get that you want to try to actively evoke a positive response. I'd simply caution you that the letter's not actually humorous, and I think that makes it less effective than you want it to be.

I get it, I'm a person with a different viewpoint and even if I had a New York Times' best seller, you'd probably still disagree. That doesn't bother me. Everything I've ever said to you has been in my best effort to be helpful, and for free, and for you to take or leave. Other people read these threads, though. Sometimes I offer advice for those people who are also where we are...still figuring things out. No insult is ever meant in anything I say. I don't have time for that sort of thing. I do hope you let us know how your experiences in publishing this novel take form. Some of us read it back when it was brand new.

Best wishes.

 

[BWFoster78]

If you love the letter, why ask for people's opinions?

I'm asking for feedback about how to make it more effective.

You suggested making it more "professional." I rejected that advice.

Just because I don't think your advice in particular is right for me does not mean that someone else might not propose something that would help a great deal.

Sorry you didn't like it. And I'm sorry I didn't like your advice.

Thanks.

Brian