Personal and Heroic Sacrifices

[TheCrystallineEntity]

I'm fascinated by what drives people to sacrifice themselves, others, everything they hold dear, for positive or negative reasons, and the consequences thereof; as well as whether heroic sacrifices [in general and not] are truly noble and selfless.

I'm interested in hearing your opinions on this topic. Though if this initial post is too vague, I can easily provide examples and so forth.

 

[Penpilot]

When I boil it down, the reason is always something very personal that reaches down into the core of that person and drives them one way or the other. That person may give very reasonable surface level rational for what they do, but IMHO it always something very basic on the lowest levels of something like Maslows Hiearchy of Needs.

 

[TheCrystallineEntity]

Here's a thought:
It is worth sacrificing eleven people to save the world?
That's the main dilemma of my fourth book.

 

[WooHooMan]

Here's a thought:
It is worth sacrificing eleven people to save the world?

Yes. I assume that they qualify as part of "the world" so if they didn't get sacrificed, whatever calamity affects the world would affect them as well. Even if there's no guarantee that the world would be saved, it would still be worth trying the sacrifice as not sacrificing would still be a net negative.
Plus "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" and all that.

Looking back at the sacrifices that show-up in my story, it usually has to do with a character upholding their honor or virtue or something. Like, "I won't be able to live with myself if I didn't make this sacrifice". That can extend to making a sacrifice for the sake of a loved-one's safety or happiness.
In one story, I explore the idea of "I need to make sacrifices to demonstrate to other people that they should be willing to make sacrifices".

 

[skip.knox]

Just another thought, with no pretensions that it leads anywhere: villains often think in terms of sacrificing others in some greater cause, even if that cause is nothing more than their own ambition. Also, even if the sacrificer is as noble as all get-out, there will be some who regard the sacrifice as unjustified. No good deed goes unlamented.

 

[Penpilot]

Here's a thought:
It is worth sacrificing eleven people to save the world?
That's the main dilemma of my fourth book.

If you're being cold and objective about it, then answer will most likely be yes. But if it were me, storywise I'd take it a bit further. It's easy to sacrifice someone you don't know. it's like hearing about deaths on the nightly news. It can be horrible and saddening, but it doesn't cut too deep. For the most part, it doesn't rock someone to the core.

But it becomes infinitely more difficult if those eleven people are family and friends.

It's kind of like that saying about a million deaths being a statistic and one being a tragedy.

 

[Chessie2]

11 seems kind of excessive to me.

 

[FifthView]

The dilemma is not in the numbers, but in the question of whether it's the chooser's right to make that decision of who dies.

 

[Chessie2]

The dilemma is not in the numbers, but in the question of whether it's the chooser's right to make that decision of who dies.

Still seems excessive. But what do I know?

 

[FifthView]

Sorry Chessie2 I wasn't responding to your post, just making a general observation.

If I were to write something involving this question of sacrifice, I'd focus more on whether it's the chooser's right to make the decision of who lives or dies. Using a number could influence how any given character might react to the dilemma. Villains typically don't even consider the question, or if they do it's quickly disposed of. Main characters might wrestle with it a lot more, before and after making the decision. Observers might also react toward the person who made that decision in particular ways. Those who are about to die....You get the idea, heh.

 

[Heliotrope]

The dilemma is not in the numbers, but in the question of whether it's the chooser's right to make that decision of who dies.

I'm very intrigued by this thought, and Skip's of "villains often think in terms of sacrificing others in some greater cause, even if that cause is nothing more than their own ambition. Also, even if the sacrificer is as noble as all get-out, there will be some who regard the sacrifice as unjustified. No good deed goes unlamented."

*I don't know how to quote two people in the same reply

This is fascinating. I think, because I tend to lean in the direction of both these thoughts I don't think I would allow my character to make the decision of sacrificing 11 people for "the greater good"... My character would probably think something along the lines of "one innocent sacrifice is one too many" or something lame like that, and they would do whatever they could to make sure it didn't happen, going to great lengths to find another way.

But at the end of the day that is a personal ethics thing, perhaps.

So basically, I can't answer the question lol.

*Side note: I write for kids though, so there is very little (to no) human/human killing. Human sacrifice is something that may come up for tension purposes but wouldn't ever actually happen

 

[FifthView]

*I don't know how to quote two people in the same reply

Trick: Highlight the portion you want to quote, and a "Reply" button should appear under the highlighted portion. That inserts the highlighted text into the post area. Do this with text from various other members' comments, and voila.

 

[Chessie2]

Sorry Chessie2 I wasn't responding to your post, just making a general observation.

If I were to write something involving this question of sacrifice, I'd focus more on whether it's the chooser's right to make the decision of who lives or dies. Using a number could influence how any given character might react to the dilemma. Villains typically don't even consider the question, or if they do it's quickly disposed of. Main characters might wrestle with it a lot more, before and after making the decision. Observers might also react toward the person who made that decision in particular ways. Those who are about to die....You get the idea, heh.

Ah yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Hm...yeah I'm not sure how to answer this question either. No one sacrifices anyone in my books...it's themselves they sacrifice towards the end. So I've never written anything like this.

 

[Heliotrope]

Sorry Chessie2 I wasn't responding to your post, just making a general observation.

If I were to write something involving this question of sacrifice, I'd focus more on whether it's the chooser's right to make the decision of who lives or dies. Using a number could influence how any given character might react to the dilemma. Villains typically don't even consider the question, or if they do it's quickly disposed of. Main characters might wrestle with it a lot more, before and after making the decision. Observers might also react toward the person who made that decision in particular ways. Those who are about to die....You get the idea, heh.

Yes, I think this would be the purpose of including such a thing in a story. It's not so much a plot device as much as it should be a character arc device. A way to show an inner struggle or conflict within a character that propels them forward to choose and act a certain way...

 

[FifthView]

I have occasionally encountered a similar question involving self-sacrifice. For instance, a king who rides into danger and sure death because "It's the only way." Does a leader have the right to choose that death for himself, or does he have a responsibility to stay alive so he can lead his people? Maybe sometimes the question can be put to mothers or fathers of young children. Or lovers.

 

[TheCrystallineEntity]

Will this help?
The main character's ten sisters were previously sacrificed to become a seal holding a destructive being away, and when the story starts, it's her turn soon. She's never known her sisters, as they were taken away before she really knew them. She chooses [through the pleading of her mother] to run away and discover more about the being, but in the end has to decide for herself whether to become the final seal or not.

 

[Heliotrope]

Yes, I do think this is a story conflict that comes up a lot, especially in fantasy. The old "put the oxygen mask over yourself before you put it on your kids" debate. It is for sure one that I'm attracted to, especially in regards to mom's and children. I've asked myself over and over if there was a zombie apocalypse would I leave my autistic daughter locked up alone in the house while I went to find food? Or would I take her with me and risk exposing her to the danger outside?

Who knows?

That sort of stuff makes for good story conflict though.

 

[TheCrystallineEntity]

I was inspired by a quotation from the Claymore manga: "If you act selfishly and end up dying, what are the ones you leave behind supposed to do?" [The English translation is simply: "If you die, what about the ones you leave behind?"]

 

[Heliotrope]

Will this help?
The main character's ten sisters were previously sacrificed to become a seal holding a destructive being away, and when the story starts, it's her turn soon. She's never known her sisters, as they were taken away before she really knew them. She chooses [through the pleading of her mother] to run away and discover more about the being, but in the end has to decide for herself whether to become the final seal or not.

Ok, yeah, I have almost an exactly similar situation in my WIP. Ten people sacrificed themselves to become a beast that could protect a magical treasure in a magical land. The last person was supposed to use the treasure to help the rest of the people during a great battle and after the battle was over she was supposed to sacrifice herself to seal the gate to the magical land. But she was a coward and she didn't do it, thus leaving the gate open so anything could go in and out.

Weird lol!

Anyway, if it is self sacrifice and the people choose to do it I don't see why that is a problem? I only have a problem if one person is making that choice for ten others.

 

[Svrtnsse]

My main character wrestles with whether to sacrifice his pride in order to secure the future of his best friend and her family.

It turned out to be really tricky to write, because my MC is dead set on sticking to his guns and keeping his pride. This essentially turns him into a big jerk in the eyes of everyone (including himself and the reader) and I had a bit of a hard time figuring out how handle that (hint: save the cat).

The stakes here aren't as high as human lives versus the rest of the world, but they're high enough for the characters involved for it to be a tough decision to make.