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Show, don't Tell...How do you do it?

Ankari

Hero Breaker
Moderator
See. This is much more interesting than the original paragraph. It drew me right in.

Good job using that sentence, btw. I like it the way you worked it in.

But the tone changed. I don't want to mince ideas with you (although I am, so go ahead) but the image I got of the scene from the POV's writing was darker, more serious. In Gavintonks version it's a bit comical. I even think of Mogruk as a wussy in Gavintonk's version. I mean, an old woman is feigning a kick to Mogruk's backside.

If someone does something right, do we untrain that person to do something else? I think that the OP's version was a bit telling, but a few changes in his choice of words would preserve his tone and keep it from being overly telling.
 

Penpilot

Staff
Article Team
I'll just share the first paragraph to a well known book by a very well known writer. I think it parallels a little of what A. Vortex did. On the surface, it's all telling, but the subtext shows a lot more. It's not always about starting off at a 100mph.

Shadow had done three years in prison. He was big enough, and looked don't-****-with-me enough that his biggest problem was killing time. So he kept himself in shape, and taught himself coin tricks, and thought about how much he loved his wife.

One last note. IMHO any writing 'rule' taken to the extreme is a dangerous thing and has the potential to screw up one's writing, whether that's showing or telling.
 
Thank you for all the responses! First off let me point out that the previous paragraphs had Mogruk hunting a deer and failing to kill it on his first shot and took a second try to get it (that also shows that he isn't a great hunter) and that this excerpt is not the opening to my novel, though it is close to the beginning. Also, the last paragraph went into detail about how in orcish culture, different warriors were sent into the woods to hunt and once they returned with their kill then they would be welcomed back at their tables to feast and drink. That's why the next paragraph opened with, "Mogruk did not mind being sent off to hunt."

Actually the main part of this that i had though I had wrong was the section about him tracing his scar because then it jumps off to describe how orcs view their scars and it isn't really about the MC anymore. I didn't know that I really messed up on the initial part. I am new at this way of thinking/writing and I still am having a little bit of trouble with this. There's a lot of you saying you likw it and others who say you don't. I think i have an understanding on show and tell though I don't see how I could write the first sentence as a "show." i already did kind of show that he isn't a good hunter in the previous paragraph but I am now kind of explaining it further. This is the first time you meet the MC and I wanted to just give some short info about him.
 
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Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
Androxine:

You just have to get comfortable with your own voice and figure out the style of writing that works for you. That style may even change from story to story, so in many cases it is about figure out which style is best for your story. BWFoster is right in the sense that he is expressing a preference for a certain kind of writing. Some other readers will share that preference, some will not. I think you should be guided largely by your own voice and your own sense of the story. If you're worried that you have to show more to write a good story - you don't. But if you want to show more and are concerned about how to best go about it, then I suggest looking at the advice throughout this thread and practice a few different versions of that same scene to see what you end up with.
 
Androxine:

You just have to get comfortable with your own voice and figure out the style of writing that works for you. That style may even change from story to story, so in many cases it is about figure out which style is best for your story. BWFoster is right in the sense that he is expressing a preference for a certain kind of writing. Some other readers will share that preference, some will not. I think you should be guided largely by your own voice and your own sense of the story. If you're worried that you have to show more to write a good story - you don't. But if you want to show more and are concerned about how to best go about it, then I suggest looking at the advice throughout this thread and practice a few different versions of that same scene to see what you end up with.

Well I understand Show don't Tell a little bit more now. Instead of saying that Jake was a good fighter, describe how he expertly parried his opponents attacks. I just don't see how I can rewrite the first bit into a more "show" style. The actual scene that involved the hunting was done in a paragraph or two before the excerpt I posted so that would have shown he wasn't good. And this is the first time the reader gets to know the main character so I wanted to tell him/her about Mogruk.
 

Butterfly

Auror
It's all about balancing your work, learning what to show and what to tell.

Show too much, and showing the wrong things means the story can become lost in progress, muddied, if you like. Showing too much can draw out unnecessary points and events which will slow down your pace, your plot, and can throw out your structure. E.g, showing backstory, rather than telling it - how to show it is the difficult part. Do you want to actually put the characters into the backstory and go through the writing out of nightmare, dreams and flashbacks? Too many of these are confusing, jarring, makes the order of events jump around too much, in an illogical order to really make sense - unless that is what you want. IMO It's better, and more concise and clearer to tell the backstory events, and to show the current emotions and hopes, or regrets surfacing out of those memories.

Tell too much and your prose become lifeless, emotionless, a list of events without any reader immersion, but sometimes the telling is required to get your point across. e.g if you have characters travelling from place to place over a number of weeks, you really don't want to show every rut and hole in the road. You do want to show their emotional and physical status before the journey, and then also the effects of the arduous trek after it, how it has ground down their emotions, worn their shoes, lightened their load, etc.
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
I think part of teaching someone to show is teaching them when to do it as well as how. Knowing when to do it, or not to do it, or when either choice will serve you, is part of the 'how.' You can certainly show instead of tell, here. There's nothing wrong with that approach. But there's nothing wrong with mentioning, as well, that it is OK to tell. That's the nature of a discussion thread, and I don't see a problem with divergent viewpoints being shown.

From my point of view: I offer up suggestions on how to improve the OP's writing. Then you and others pipe up with: no, it's okay to tell.

If you honestly believe that the OP's example paragraph was good, then I guess I don't have a problem with it. I'd just say that we have widely different tastes on what is good. If you didn't believe that the paragraph was good, I don't understand how your post was supposed to be helpful. All you seemed to be saying was that "hey don't listen to this guy who is trying hard to help you. Oh, btw, I don't really have anything else to add."


From my perspective, I thought the paragraph was not engaging and that it needed a lot of help. I tried to help.

If the OP learns how to do three things - how to show, how to add tension, and how to add emotion - I think he'll find that his writing is much closer to where he wants it to be. What exactly is the problem with trying to teach him how to show?
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
But this isn't Androxine's story, is it? It's Gavin's story.

Yes, it is Gavin's story.

The point is to show Androxine an example of how it could be written.

To be honest, I don't think Androxine, from the example paragraph that I read, is at the point where he needs to be concerned as much with his story as he should be concerned about learning better how to write. That is what Gavin and I seem to be doing. The rest of you seem to be just trying to criticize those who are trying to help.

Example of writing question thread:

OP: Hey, I need help on how to do this.

Me: Make the piece more active. Try to get rid of was. Show more to engage the reader.

Steerpike: There are no rules in writing.

Again, I'm not sure how your response helps the OP.
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
Thank you for all the responses! First off let me point out that the previous paragraphs had Mogruk hunting a deer and failing to kill it on his first shot and took a second try to get it (that also shows that he isn't a great hunter) and that this excerpt is not the opening to my novel, though it is close to the beginning. Also, the last paragraph went into detail about how in orcish culture, different warriors were sent into the woods to hunt and once they returned with their kill then they would be welcomed back at their tables to feast and drink. That's why the next paragraph opened with, "Mogruk did not mind being sent off to hunt."

Actually the main part of this that i had though I had wrong was the section about him tracing his scar because then it jumps off to describe how orcs view their scars and it isn't really about the MC anymore. I didn't know that I really messed up on the initial part. I am new at this way of thinking/writing and I still am having a little bit of trouble with this. There's a lot of you saying you likw it and others who say you don't. I think i have an understanding on show and tell though I don't see how I could write the first sentence as a "show." i already did kind of show that he isn't a good hunter in the previous paragraph but I am now kind of explaining it further. This is the first time you meet the MC and I wanted to just give some short info about him.

Androxine,

If you've already shown the reader this information, then the problem is that you need to trust them to have picked up on it. IMO, the cardinal sin of any writer is to show something and then think he needs to explain what he just showed. I can forgive a lot of stuff in a book, but that will make me put it down faster than almost anything else.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
As I said above, I thought the initial sentences posted were fine. A lot of good books start in that fashion (an example of that was provided). In this case, it isn't the opening of the story.

No one said there is anything wrong with teaching him to show. The opposite is true. However, some of us have differing views on how to go about it and what the balance should be. The thing is, your point of view appears to be that there is one right way to write and that it is your way. Sorry, but that is nonsense and it leafs to this kind of post, the upshot of which appears to be that if you post advice in a thread anyone with a differing view should simply shut up. That's not how a writing forum works. I like reading your advice, even if I'm not always in agreement. You can't take the fact that people have differing viewpoints personally. Even a cursory examination of the bookshelves in a store will show a wide range of styles and approaches to writing fiction. There is a lot of subjectivity here and you have to expect that to play out in any community of writers. The best someone can do when posting for advice is to sift through the various viewpoints offered for the one that speaks to them most. If the OP wants to adopt your style entirely, that's fine with me. But it isn't his only option.
 

T.Allen.Smith

Staff
Moderator
I agree with the sentiment that most writers should lean heavily towards showing and not telling wherever possible. Some authors may be able to get away with more telling but as a writer and reader, that doesn't work for me.

Each of us can only speak to what works for us so I'll do the same. My biggest gripe on this issue rests with the description of action and reaction. It bothers me when an author tells me someone is scared when instead they could describe their breathing or excited when I could experience a quickening heartbeat. I cringe when I read "He swung the sword" when I'm longing to see how it was done.

Keying on external, as well as internal, physical reactions of a POV (or those the POV notices) makes the writing come alive. Without these types of descriptions, it almost always comes of dry and flat.
 
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BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
As I said above, I thought the initial sentences posted were fine. A lot of good books start in that fashion (an example of that was provided). In this case, it isn't the opening of the story.

No one said there is anything wrong with teaching him to show. The opposite is true. However, some of us have differing views on how to go about it and what the balance should be. The thing is, your point of view appears to be that there is one right way to write and that it is your way. Sorry, but that is nonsense and it leafs to this kind of post, the upshot of which appears to be that if you post advice in a thread anyone with a differing view should simply shut up. That's not how a writing forum works. I like reading your advice, even if I'm not always in agreement. You can't take the fact that people have differing viewpoints personally. Even a cursory examination of the bookshelves in a store will show a wide range of styles and approaches to writing fiction. There is a lot of subjectivity here and you have to expect that to play out in any community of writers. The best someone can do when posting for advice is to sift through the various viewpoints offered for the one that speaks to them most. If the OP wants to adopt your style entirely, that's fine with me. But it isn't his only option.

I guess my problem was that you seemed to be disagreeing with me without offering solid advice to the OP.

His post, to me, indicated that he felt that his writing needed work. I agreed and tried to offer helpful hints.

I felt like you then came in and said: don't listen to this other guy and then stopped without giving any advice to the OP. If I'm wrong in my impression, I apologize, but that's the way it came across to me.
 

Philip Overby

Staff
Article Team
I think this is another one of those "writer's rules" where only writers notice this. Maybe some readers notice it subconsciously? I think in general, this rule is almost always the best route. The purpose of this rule is that readers want to be immersed in the story. Even in everyday conversation, I notice I'm less interested if someone says:

"Dude, my mom is mad."

I'm more interested if someone says:

"Dude, my mom just busted out the back window of my dad's car with a crowbar."

Saying, "mom is mad" could mean any number of things. Showing that she busted out a window with a crowbar shows a whole new level of "mad."

I think even if you're showing, that doesn't necessarily mean the writing is always going to be more interesting. However, if your story is captivating enough, readers aren't going to notice if you "tell" every so often. And even if they do, they probably won't care. Of course there are different levels of readers that are thrown off by these kind of things, so you have to be careful you're not telling so much that the reader can't feel the story in any meaningful way.
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
I think this is another one of those "writer's rules" where only writers notice this.

Phil,

In concept, I disagree with you on this one. There is a definitive reason for the Show, Don't Tell rule. Showing engages the reader. Too much telling will definitely turn off your audience.

On a more microscale, I agree with what you say here:

However, if your story is captivating enough, readers aren't going to notice if you "tell" every so often. And even if they do, they probably won't care.

If, overall, you do a great job of showing and engaging the reader, it's not going to kill you if you "tell" even when you should have shown.

I don't mean to imply that you have to always "show." There are many instances where telling is definitely better and instances where it's a pure stylistic choice.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
Too much telling will definitely turn off your audience.

I don't necessarily agree with this as a categorical statement. A good story can be told almost entirely through telling. Whether this statement is true or not is going to be highly dependent on the audience.

As for my purpose in this thread, it wasn't simply to contradict your advice. Ankari and Penpilot had already made posts about the show versus tell distinction, and demonstrated that differently people view the same passage in a different manner. My point was simply to reinforce that idea to Androxine, and to tell him that he's going to have to discover what works best for him and what is in accordance with his own style. That's something we all have to do. If he wants to go with 99.9% showing, that's fine by me. If that's his style of writing, great. But he shouldn't feel that he has to do so in order to produce a good story. I don't like to see authors being given imperatives when it comes to matters of style, that's all. My comments are meant to demonstrate only that there are other ways of approaching the problem, not that there is anything wrong with your way should anyone decide that's the one that suits them.
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
Steerpike,

Here's how I'm interpreting your viewpoint:

There is not right or wrong way to write. However you do it will possibly attract some kind of audience somewhere. Therefore, just write however you want.
 
Let me say first off that I am writing this from my phone and it has a nasty habit of messing up long text. Thank you to everyone who has replied your advice is always appreciated. I can see How telling too much can be a problem but it doesn't seem like its something you have to do. Sort of like with speech tags you could go through an entire novel with just saying he said and she said. It might get very repetitious but you could do that. I can definitely see how showing give much more flavor too your story. I took a look at other parts of my story and noticed I sometimes show and tell. I might say something like HE SWING HIS SWORD IN A DOWNWARD ARC, CLEAVING THE MANS HEAD. I told that he was swinging his sword and showed how he did it. I agree with things that both BW and and Steerpike have said and some things I disagree with. But even if I get advice I don't fully agree with it still gives me a new perspective too look through. I believe that is the story engaging for the reader then these little things won't be too much a problem. So in a sense I agree with steerpike that writing and reading is all preference.but I also believe that tyring to show moor will add more color. BW, how you would have written the parts that I had that you didn't agree with? And again I'm sorry if my phone messed up my typing it is very difficult and fir some reason I can't control the cursor and go back and edit anything.
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
BW, how you would have written the parts that I had that you didn't agree with?.

I'll give it a shot.

Mogruk did not mind being sent off to hunt. In fact, it thrilled him and he felt that it was the only time he was at peace. He was not the greatest of hunters but the joy of killing and the stimulating hunt indulged him.

The point of showing is to put us inside the character's head. Filter what is happening through him so that we can feel what he's feeling. It gives the reader a compass for how they should interpret events.

Think about writing about the American War of Northern Agression. You'd have a very different viewpoint if you wrote from the perspective of a yankee vs. a southerner.

I don't have any idea about your character beyond what the paragraph that you've written tells me. I know he's been sent to hunt, that he's not good at it, and that he enjoys killing. Keeping these things in mind:

Morgruk trampled through the brush scattering birds and rabbits in all directions. He hefted the fifty pounds of his club and tossed it at the nearest game. The weapon crushed a sapling to the ground as the rabbit scampered away.

See, this shows the reader that he's not a very good hunter.

Later, after building up tension by making him desirous of blood and having him repeatedly deprived of it, I'd show him killing something by blind luck and reveling at the blood and the sensation of the kill. I'd also probably show an initial scene where he's being ordered to hunt to establish his standing in the hierarchy of orcs.

Just some thoughts. As others have stated, though, this is my story, not yours. I hope the example helps.
 
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