Why are RPGs so popular?

[Steerpike]

Pen and paper RPGs had a pretty big decline in the 1990s, and then grew again in the 2000s. They grew enough around 2010 that people were actually talking about whether there might be a 1980s-style growth ahead of them. I doubt that will happen (but just because they don't have the 'growth' of the 80s doesn't mean they are unpopular), but nevertheless the number of games out there and also the number of players to game with has, in my experience, gone up dramatically in the last decade and a half.

D&D stumbled a bit with 4e, and it looks to me like Pathfinder is on-par if not a bit ahead of D&D right now.

 

[Zero Angel]

I really can't speak to how popular it was in the 80s (as I was 0-4), but I know that I went from playing AD&D in the 90s to not playing at all for about 10 years and then getting to play again with 3rd and 3.5. As I was going through a dry spell however, many of the people that would one day be my friends were inventing their own RPGs, playing other RPG systems, and doing anything and everything to get their fix.

This is anecdotal obviously, but it would be nice to see some sales figures and downloads of only D&D in the 80s compared to all the different systems that are available today. We can argue that sales figures do not represent gaming sessions, but I don't really see a way to measure that.

 

[Steerpike]

This is anecdotal obviously, but it would be nice to see some sales figures and downloads of only D&D in the 80s compared to all the different systems that are available today. We can argue that sales figures do not represent gaming sessions, but I don't really see a way to measure that.

Without even doing research I can estimate that downloads of D&D in the 1980s were right around none

 

[Steerpike]

I will note that back in the 1980s I saw a GenCon attendance figure of about 5000. Last year they had over 36000. Table top RPGs are a niche industry. They'll never be this big phenomenon that takes the world by storm. But they're not dying by any stretch of the imagination.

Also, every person I know who plays table-top RPGs also plays computer RPGs and MMOs, so one doesn't necessarily preclude the other.

 

[Sparkie]

The line is being blurred ever more between computer models and humans however, so in another 20-30 years, there will be no need to play paper RPGs other than nostalgia.

I'll take issue with this, since it speaks directly to the difference between a video game and a tabletop RPG.

You are right, Zero, about the line between computer models and humans becoming a little blurry. (If you don't believe that, just take a look at the new ad for the PS4 on YouTube, then imagine where we'll be in 20 years.) However, while computers and game systems become ever more sophisticated, a video game will only do what it's programmed to do.

In a tabletop RPG just about anything is possible, within the discretion of the GM. There's arguably more freedom in tabletop RPG's than in any other type of gaming. There will always be fans of that freedom, of that type of gameplay. Nostalgia may be a factor in a given players desire to get together with friends and bust out the DM screen, but I doubt it will ever be the only reason why people will play tabletop RPG's.

 

[Zero Angel]

I'll take issue with this, since it speaks directly to the difference between a video game and a tabletop RPG.

You are right, Zero, about the line between computer models and humans becoming a little blurry. (If you don't believe that, just take a look at the new ad for the PS4 on YouTube, then imagine where we'll be in 20 years.) However, while computers and game systems become ever more sophisticated, a video game will only do what it's programmed to do.

In a tabletop RPG just about anything is possible, within the discretion of the GM. There's arguably more freedom in tabletop RPG's than in any other type of gaming. There will always be fans of that freedom, of that type of gameplay. Nostalgia may be a factor in a given players desire to get together with friends and bust out the DM screen, but I doubt it will ever be the only reason why people will play tabletop RPG's.

I'm saying that the freedom you espouse will be available in video games. More so, because our imaginations can be immediately visualized and realized onscreen. Especially with tablets becoming so prevalent, and Google glasses (forever) on the horizon, even a "tabletop" game will become computerized. In my last gaming session, I had a player that rolled all of his dice via an app on his phone.

In the tabletop RPG I am developing, I want the mechanics to be somewhat robust, and I want people to be able to level everything. It's absurd to expect people will do this all on paper when they can easily have an app that can handle all this. So instead of nerfing my design, I am incorporating app development.

Also, it should be mentioned that although players can literally do anything they think of in a tabletop world, chances are they'll do one of a finite amount of things that can be easily codified or anticipated through playtesting. Still, if you get into the mathematics of the situation, we are very close to developing algorithms that can react to player intent. I did a paper on Markov Decision Processes for a transitional course back in my first year of grad school that was VERY basic even then and it's pretty clear that we are approaching a point where video games will be able to react to player input the same way (or better than) a DM/GM can.

 

[Sparkie]

I'm saying that the freedom you espouse will be available in video games. More so, because our imaginations can be immediately visualized and realized onscreen.

I disagree. Computers are getting steadily 'smarter,' but I doubt that they'll ever be able to replicate the creativity of a human being.

 

[Steerpike]

I find that at some point, having rules or certain powers, feats, and skills for everything tends to be more limiting and less likely to encourage people to do a wide variety of things. If they look at their sheet and see a list of things they can do, players are more likely to play as though that is all they can do. That's why a nice, light framework is my preference. For players who aren't used to it, it may take time to adapt, but once they do you'll open up a whole lot in terms of game play and player options if you don't try to account for everything ahead of time and come up with a rule for it.

 

[Androxine Vortex]

It lets you escape a boring everyday life and lets you use your imagination. It's cool because its not like you are just reading a story, you are making the story with every choice you make. I love Warhammer 40K but stopped playing it because it was too expensive. I had a large Tyranid army a few Eldar my friend gave me, a very small Chaos force and was just starting a SM army when I quit. Though I still buy the book because the lore is my favorite part of it!

 

[Devor]

I find that at some point, having rules or certain powers, feats, and skills for everything tends to be more limiting and less likely to encourage people to do a wide variety of things. If they look at their sheet and see a list of things they can do, players are more likely to play as though that is all they can do.

My experience was similar. We played AD&D and then D&D 3.5. I hated Feats and thought Skills should have been much broader than they were to open their use. But we used "Opposition" checks a lot more, which came out of some rulebook somewhere.

Basically, let's say you're trying to jump on a guy's back. You roll d20, against your Dex, and he rolls d20 against his Str (he's trying to throw you off). Closest without going over wins (Price is Right rules). It's complicated the first time, but is a lot of fun when you get used to it because you see the roll but don't know the other guy's stats. So you don't know really know what's going to happen until it happens. For instance, if both of you rolled over your stat, the results could be very funny.

The two or three games I played of 4th edition had none of that. Lame. Two hours fighting goblins with dice. Boardgames are fun. But 4e was awful because it still had all the complexity of an RPG but gave up its best features.

 

[Lucas]

I bought D&D this past April, and I absolutely love it. But it got me thinking: why are games like Dungeons and Dragons, Warhammer, and World of Warcraft so incredibly popular? D&D has been around since the 1970s. So far, four editions of it exist, with a fifth one to be released soon. There's something about that game which makes it appealing, but WHAT?


I think it's the whole IDEA of the game. Players are required to use their imaginations to play the game. They become someone else entirely, if only for a few hours. They get to do things they couldn't otherwise do in real life.

What do you guys think?

The same reason why young men loved adventure novels in the early 20th century.

Western middle class life is so boring.