Worst World Building Tropes

[WooHooMan]

I did mention Skyrim rather than Tamriel - and for good reason. While I thoroughly enjoy the greater diversity in terms of the animals, creatures and landscapes that exists in Skyrim the urban areas and the interior of a lot of the buildings and ruins tend to be virtually identical outside of the big cities like Solitude, Markarth and Riften. That's why I am somewhat critical of its world-building. However Cyrodiil was a lot more diverse geographically, especially with the Shivering Isles, and so are the urban areas and the building interiors. Morrowind and Solstheim in the Dragonborn DLC are in a class of their own. Both are very disorientating but in a good way.

But you were talking about the Dwemer's role in Skyrim. Their role in Skyrim is no different than their role in Morrowind and Redguard. They aren't just a disappeared race meant to excuse the existence of dungeons. They are part of Tamriel's lore and the narrative of the Elder Scrolls.
Also, I'd say the buildings and ruins being similar is somewhat justified. The Dwemer ruins are distinct from the Nordic ruins as they were different cultures with their own architectural styles. Most of the Nordic ruins were constructed by the same people - the pre-Septim, post-Atmora Nords.
The towns being similar is justified by the fact that most of them are probably pretty young and were constructed by the same cultural group: Septim Empire Nords. Cyrodiil architecture is more diverse because the racial demographics of Cyrodiil is more diverse (and dynamic due to cultural exchange with neighboring countries). Not only are Imperial a less overwhelming majority than Skyrim Nords but they are a more diverse culture due to historic split between Colovian/Western Imperial and Nibenese/Eastern Imperial. But then we get into the topic of how much of Tamriel's lore is represented in the actual games which is a big and controversial topic among fans.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

Oh boy do i have a lot of these

Probably my biggest gripe: Introducing predatory creatures (like dragons) that are huge beyond what is prudent or possible and yet not inventing any other creatures for them to prey upon. I'm looking at you, Temeraire. We have like hundreds of varieties of 30+ ton carnivores spread across the world, yet nothing else is different. The ecosystems work exactly the same. What are they eating? Who knows? Certainly not Naomi Novik!

The largest predatory animal on earth, the polar bear, isn't even one ton in weight. You can't just drop creatures 50 times the size of the largest extant predator on earth all over the globe and keep every ecosystem exactly the same.

This is actually really common, though. Creating massive carnivorous creatures with no concievable way to support their size. Every level of an ecosystem has many, many times the biomass of the one above it. Yet people will shamelessly create predators that are plot devices for eating the MC's but that have no other apparent food source than the MC's because their realm is barren, devoid of any other living things, etc...Um, do plucky young heroes traverse this land often enough to be a steady source of prey, or what?

Everything taking place in temperate regions. Specifically ones that mimic Europe. Likewise, all cultures being based on european ones. You guys know there is an entire globe? right?

But really, I would like to see something that takes place in a tropical region, or maybe in the arctic circle...

Fantasy Kitchen Sink or worlds where all animals and plants are the same as earth except all mythical creatures are apparently real. Why? We don't know! Arent a lot of these mythical animals from totally different mythologies? Probably! Have humans never really made up any animals or beings? Does this world have any actual connection to Earth at all or any way that the creatures of this world could be the inspiration of myths on Earth, or do all Earth mythical animals coexist here for literally no reason?

everything is a patriarchal absolute monarchy. Apparently no one has ever tried any other form of government. T can't even be a constitutional monarchy.

Technology and culture being totally stagnant for thousands of years.

Abrahamic religions don't exist but the ideas, beliefs about morality, and general worldview that we get from those religions is still there.

Certain Earth animals being considered staples of fantasy worlds, but....I don't know how to explain it other than, horses are in almost every fantasy novel, but imagine a zebra in a fantasy novel. Or a kangaroo. Or a panda. Even if the fantasy world has an equivalent environment where these animals could live, it would just seem wrong. Somehow it's acceptable to make an analog of europe with all the animals of Europe and say "This is a fantasy world totally separate from Earth," but people wouldn't take it in stride the same way if you made a fantasy world with only Australian animals and claimed it was a whole different world. They have us convinced wolves can be a fantasy creature, but imagine doing the same with a koala.

Generally just people writing about things they haven't researched. Making ecology with no knowledge of ecology, culture with no idea about culture.

I'm sure i'll think of more later. Actually I can think of more now, but i'm getting tired of typing.

 

[TheCrystallineEntity]

<Everything taking place in temperate regions. Specifically ones that mimic Europe. Likewise, all cultures being based on european ones. You guys know there is an entire globe? right?>

My latest books take place in a warm, misty area. They import food from other worlds, but often have curry and stuff like that. A little variety can change everything.

 

[TheCrystallineEntity]

<Abrahamic religions don't exist but the ideas, beliefs about morality, and general worldview that we get from those religions is still there.>

Oh, good goddesses, yes. This is one of those things that annoys me to no end.

 

[FifthView]

<Abrahamic religions don't exist but the ideas, beliefs about morality, and general worldview that we get from those religions is still there.>

Oh, good goddesses, yes. This is one of those things that annoys me to no end.

Me too.

 

[pmmg]

I don't think there is such a thing as a worst or overplayed trope. All things in their place. Any of these will fit into any story when it is the right story for it to be in, and all of them have the potential to be great additions. I am not sure why I should be sick of any of them.

I think, these things, like the stories that use them are trying to say things, and connect to things in the human understanding and experience that makes them relatable. Sometimes they are even reaching for what is true or asking is something that is thought to be true really true, or even help to reveal things that are true. They are just tools in a tool box, used effectively, they help an author say whatever it is they want to say. I know it is fun to poke at them, and I am sure there is a long litany of people who have used them poorly, but its better to make them useful tools and master them.

 

[Gurkhal]

<Everything taking place in temperate regions. Specifically ones that mimic Europe. Likewise, all cultures being based on european ones. You guys know there is an entire globe? right?>

My latest books take place in a warm, misty area. They import food from other worlds, but often have curry and stuff like that. A little variety can change everything.

I'd love to run a story in an warmer setting but I don't live there so I don't know much about how life there is, and feel more comfortable basing myself on something that I already know as opposed to racking up face palms like there's no tomorrow.

 

[TheCrystallineEntity]

My books are all spacey-wacy and spiritual and astral and cosmic and all that fun stuff.

 

[Orc Knight]

I'd love to run a story in an warmer setting but I don't live there so I don't know much about how life there is, and feel more comfortable basing myself on something that I already know as opposed to racking up face palms like there's no tomorrow.

I have a habit of running into jungles and beach settings and mangrove swamps with my writing. It may start in temperate but it quickly becomes hot and muggy and decidedly green. And full of lizards and snakes.

 

[Gurkhal]

I have a habit of running into jungles and beach settings and mangrove swamps with my writing. It may start in temperate but it quickly becomes hot and muggy and decidedly green. And full of lizards and snakes.

I'm happy for you. But for myself I don't dare...

 

[FifthView]

I don't think there is such a thing as a worst or overplayed trope. All things in their place. Any of these will fit into any story when it is the right story for it to be in, and all of them have the potential to be great additions. I am not sure why I should be sick of any of them.

I think, these things, like the stories that use them are trying to say things, and connect to things in the human understanding and experience that makes them relatable. Sometimes they are even reaching for what is true or asking is something that is thought to be true really true, or even help to reveal things that are true. They are just tools in a tool box, used effectively, they help an author say whatever it is they want to say. I know it is fun to poke at them, and I am sure there is a long litany of people who have used them poorly, but its better to make them useful tools and master them.

Yeah, even beliefs about morals and worldviews inspired by Abrahamic religions can help to make a fictional fantasy society relatable. But sometimes one runs into thinly veiled Christianity, for instance, with little changed, or a character speaks of atonement and resurrection in a future time, etc., and it grates. Sometimes, various sins are universally accepted as sins in that world, or the proscriptions of the Ten Commandments, at least by the "good" inhabitants, and this can grate also.

 

[Devor]

I hate how all these stories are still using "day" and "night" like that's a concept set in stone. Why can't the sky be bright purple for seven hours, dark red for seven hours, and then shifting shades of green for twenty hours? We could sleep at purple time, have family time during the red hours, and then work the green shift....

Heck, why should there even be a sky? Ten miles up there could be another world, and we should be able to climb up to it, like in that Mario game. We could have a war with the flip-siders, trying to build and take control of crossover points to get to the other landmass.

We don't even need to keep to having ground, sea and sky. The "land" could be made out of a tan ooze that hardens or liquefies depending on the conditions, even sculpted as it hardens. A person could be lost in the oozey ocean and sculpt their own shelter wherever they were.

Instead of having distinctions between flora and fauna, we could use insect-like creatures that walked around, planted themselves somewhere, and began to sprout a bush of flowers and thorns from the back to keep off predators. Inside the bush, the longer the insect remains planted, the more it grows into a full-sized animal, until it sheds the bush and runs free into the world.

...

I love creativity as much or more than the next person. But in my opinion, this isn't where it comes from. I don't think a lousy story isn't going to suddenly be better because the setting is switched out with a swamp or desert. In fact, it may become worse if you don't do the work to support that change.

And if somebody's going to put the work into it, I'm going to appreciate that whatever the choices they make.

 

[FifthView]

Lists like this seem to inspire certain kinds of responses.

On the one hand, if the list is taken as an absolute proscription—What is hereby listed is verboten!—then there is the corresponding reaction that says, Um, no.

On the other hand, it's fun to make lists like this about things we personally don't like, usually with the bad examples in mind, heh.

 

[pmmg]

Yeah, even beliefs about morals and worldviews inspired by Abrahamic religions can help to make a fictional fantasy society relatable. But sometimes one runs into thinly veiled Christianity, for instance, with little changed, or a character speaks of atonement and resurrection in a future time, etc., and it grates. Sometimes, various sins are universally accepted as sins in that world, or the proscriptions of the Ten Commandments, at least by the "good" inhabitants, and this can grate also.

Well, I could make arguments as to why an Abrahamic religion might show up in far away places with no connection to religions here on Earth, since those also represent a humanistic effort to capture what might be true about a people, a creator and its creation. I might even expect some of the stories could be similar and carry the same themes. Actual stories being the same would seem unlikely, but the big concepts could easily repeat in many places at once. I don't think its a stretch to say in a distant place, creatures which deal with death and what may come after might not come up with resurrection as a possible answer. Really, when a child asks what happens when I die, there are not too many answers one can really choose from.

Similarly, it would not be a stretch for a distant people to come to understand the power of forgiveness, and if there were a people who could come to think there must a Creator (or creators) but they are somehow separated from them, they might go down the road of how do we atone. its not just Christians who have drawn the concept.

Certainly it is true that there are many ways far places might develop. Most likely, they would have many religions with many different concepts floating around. But so long as they are a people who keep asking questions about the universe, it could very well be they come to some similar answers. Maybe there might be a different shakedown as to which became prominent, but I suspect those that could not stand up to any test of reason would fall away, leaving those best able to do so...and thus we might end up with similar concepts at the top of the pile again. (Which is not to say that all prominent religions stand up to the test of reason, or that a test of reason is how they are best measured, but that they have not been sufficiently knocked down).

A far away people saying, Hey, I think there is a God, I think it loves (or at least wants) us, I think it might be mad cause we all kind of do rotten things, and maybe we should seek some type of atonement, would seem a likely possibility to me. In the same way that the Christian God (which I would tend to expand to include the one all the monotheists are really talking about) often likens itself to a father, and these types of themes flow from the experience of a father with his children, I suspect the idea of a displeased father would be a little universal, and thereby bleed into lore and the understanding of the relationships between peoples and their creators.

Course, it could also go a million different ways well. And those different ways could all be glorious and fun and have great stories spun about them. Maybe they will even shed light on different truths. But I would bet, floating out there in fantasy worlds where Gods walk among the people, there are still some who think someone must have created them too.

Just as an aside, when I see Christian-like religions in works of fiction, they tend to be used as a backdrop to show something that is a flaw in them (I suppose otherwise they would just be Christian fiction). But I will admittedly say, I am not as well read as others.

 

[FifthView]

That would be an Um, no.

Not disagreeing at all, I am.

 

[TheCrystallineEntity]

^^You have to be careful, or else you end up with Crystal Dragon Jesuses.

 

[pmmg]

Hard to argue with that I suppose. Guess I will spin around too...

 

[FifthView]

Well it's all true. I think I suggested once, a couple years ago, that a sticky be added to every Fantasy Writing forum on MS:

If you are planning to post a new thread to the effect of "Can I...," then the answer's always yes. No need to ask. Just make it good. Then post a different new thread.
​

Edit: I don't mean to make light of your well-considered comment, so sorry if I seemed to.

But I mean by the above...

"Can I ... base my world's morality on Christianity?"
"Can I ... make my fantasy world's culture, climate, etc., like Medieval England's?"
"Can I ... write about elves, dwarves, halflings...?"
"Can I ... "

Answer's always Yes.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

There were absolute loads of pre-Christian religions in the world and to suggest that they didn't have concepts of life after death and atonement is unfair. Think of the Norse Valhalla, the Roman Elysian Fields and the Greek Hades. An afterlife of some sort along with the requirements to reach it, was a very common religious concept. So I don't see any real issue in creating religions that look and sound a little like the Abrahamic ones. Just make them yours.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

Well it's all true. I think I suggested once, a couple years ago, that a sticky be added to every Fantasy Writing forum on MS:

If you are planning to post a new thread to the effect of "Can I...," then the answer's always yes. No need to ask. Just make it good. Then post a different new thread.
​

Edit: I don't mean to make light of your well-considered comment, so sorry if I seemed to.

But I mean by the above...

"Can I ... base my world's morality on Christianity?"
"Can I ... make my fantasy world's culture, climate, etc., like Medieval England's?"
"Can I ... write about elves, dwarves, halflings...?"
"Can I ... "

Answer's always Yes.

Yes! But I will probably complain about it! lol

And that doesnt mean its bad. People will always complain. I will find different books. And write my own.