do you ever worry about someone walking off with your ideas?

[Wynnara]

First of all, let me just say I'm not trying to insult the integrity of anyone here on this board... I haven't been here very long, but thus far everyone has been very supportive and welcoming... something which I definitely need right now since I'm having trouble finding it in my "real life" circle.

That said, things I've read online and people I've spoken to... there seems to be a split in opinion on how much a person should reveal about something they are working on. While some seem to be of the opinion that getting out there and talking about your material is good PR--in addition to being a good way to stay motivated--I've also had people flat out say that I shouldn't post anything anywhere because it might jeopardize my chances to take a run at the traditional publishing industry. I've also been told I need to guard against the risk of someone wandering off with my ideas.

Now, I should add that I don't actually believe my ideas are particularly unique and, as I've noted elsewhere, I'm probably the least well-read in fantasy literature of anyone here. I don't really know much about runes or druids or spellcasting or anything like that, so the fantasy elements in my novel are really fairly basic in comparison to some of the stories I've seen on this forum alone.

And when I say I want to take a run at traditional publication... it's something that someone in the industry suggested I try and, then if it doesn't work, go back and self-publish if need be.

Anyways, on one hand, I don't want to be unnecessarily paranoid... it's very easy to see the value of having a support group that understands what you're going through and who have similarly oriented brains. On the other hand, you put in all this time and effort... you don't want to do something that is going to jeopardize your chances of success in the long haul.


I know a number of the people here have already self-published, so I'm curious to know if this is something you thought of when you were writing and getting feedback on your work.

 

[gavintonks]

if you have your own writing voice and individuality it does not matter and creativity is only a small factor in a successful book and mostly ideas are innovation not original. All work has a history to get to that point. At some stage everything is public you just have to believe you do it better. That dreadful successful movie done by the titanic guy is plagiarism city but he had the bucks to bring it to the screen

 

[Amanita]

I'm not really worried about that.
What we're posting here are ideas and small, not-yet final pieces of writing. Even if the ideas are relatively unique which is quite rare, someone else using them with his or her background and beliefs would give them a completely different spin. This probably wouldn't be more of a problem than the many elves, vampires and so on who also exist alongside each other. I wouldn't actually post my entire story or the detailed planning here, but I doubt anyone would want to read something as long as that anyway.
I think getting inspiration from other people's ideas isn't always wrong, it depends on the execution. At the moment, I don't really have much of a plot to steal anyay.

Besides that, I wouldn't be really upset if someone else with better writing and marketing skills wrote "my" story and turned it into a best-seller. That might be because I'm more interesting in getting my ideas out there than in personal fame, or making money with it.
Still, I'd be really happy if someone stole some of my ideas and used them in a story of his own different from anything I'd imagine. I'd love to have something like that to read.
This isn't true of everyone of course.

 

[Steerpike]

Ideas are a dime a dozen. Only the implementation matters and that is entirely in your hands.

 

[Mindfire]

I'm gonna be honest, having your work stolen happens, but as far as I know it's extremely rare. On forums like this one it's pretty much unheard of. Here's why.

• The people on this forum come here because they have their own projects they're banging out. Stealing means double the work- now you're writing yours and their ideas and you have to rush their idea out before they can.
• Furthermore, nobody here is writing primarily for commercial gain I think. We're doing it because we enjoy it. Thus stealing others' ideas is cheating ourselves of the experience of making our own. And who wants that?
• Finally, even if someone does steal your idea, you're at an advantage because you've been working on it far longer than they have and you have passion for it that they dont. You're likely to get it done and published first. And even if you don't, since you built the idea from the ground up, you'll probably (if you're as organized as I am) have notes dating back months or even years, not to mention the posts on this forum and witnesses in the form of the members, to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that it was your idea first. I'm no lawyer, but that'd be a pretty open and shut plagiarism/copyright infringement case.

In short, stealing is dumb.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

Ideas are a dime a dozen. What has value is the hard work involved in turning ideas into an actual finished, polished product.

EDIT: BAH, that'll teach me to reload the page and make sure nobody else posted exactly what I was going to say in the intervening 90 minutes since I initially clicked on the thread.

 

[Lorna]

Not really. Inspiration's free to all. In fact I'd be quite honoured if something I wrote actually inspired someone.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

I'll add a similar voice to the argument.

When you're describing ideas, you're doing so with in-depth knowledge of your world & characters (as Mindfire said earlier). These ideas won't come across to us in the same detailed way that you picture those concepts until they're in story form (hopefully).

In fact, most times I avoid discussing ideas with friends & family for precisely that reason... They seemed disjointed when I present them verbally. Writing them down in forums like these yields greater clarity but nowhere near the level that you will attain in a novel length work.

 

[Penpilot]

No, I don't worry about the basic ideas being stolen too much. What I come up with will be different from what others come up with.

Interesting thing happened to me this week. I ran into another writer who had the exact same title for the novel they were writing as my current work in progress, Spellslingers, which in itself isn't an original title. It's a title for series of books by Allen Dean Foster. But the thing is each of us had a drastically different take when spring boarding off that title idea. It wasn't even close.

 

[Svrtnsse]

Well, yes. I worry about it now and then, especially as I put up everything I write on the web so it's free for whoever wants to to read it. Still, I do it anyway. I figure the risk for someone stealing my ideas is minimal, I have a hard enough time even getting people to go to the site.

Also, discussing my work with others is more than well worth the risk. I do entertain illusions about being a masterful writer, but logically I know I have a lot to learn and experience before there's any truth to it. As has been mentioned before ideas are a dime a dozen and it's what you do with them that matters. I figure I'll have an easier time learning if I'm working on an idea I'm passionate about rather than a second rate idea. If I didn't believe in my idea I'd lose interest in it.

So while I do worry sometimes I think the worry is largely unfounded and that sharing my ideas is well worth the risk.

 

[JCFarnham]

I don't want to repeat this phrase but I need to in order to get the context across. Ideas are very, very cheap.

(Now the important bit) You can even have all the ideas in the world, but that just means you've got a ton of half baked notions floating around. Doesn't mean you have a plot.

Anyway, I've never worried. I don't see the point in being insecure. To be honest, it I do run into trouble with traditional publishing because I've mentioedn large sections of my books on here then... It's the internet, I can always delete stuff and hope with finger scrossed that google hasn't had enough time to database it.

 

[Saigonnus]

I don't have a big issue with the concept of someone stealing my ideas. They are just that ideas, and like many people have said, they'd put their own spin on the idea; perhaps even transforming it into something far different from the end result of yours. I would be giddy if someone took an idea I had and turned it into a bestseller since I am not here for financial gain, but to improve my writing skills and share those ideas.

 

[Wynnara]

Hehe, you guys are all apparently way more benevolent than me...

While I love the idea of someone say writing fan fiction based in my world... primarily because then I would get to read other stories in my world that I didn't have to write... I don't think I'd feel all that charitable if I saw something that felt like a rip-off of my work. I mean, I do actually make my living using my creative skills... not as a writer, but as an artist and web designer... and while I absolutely cruise the web looking at other websites for inspiration, you never, NEVER rip off another design. There are websites out there that just do side-by-side comparisons showing how this designer ripped of this other designer... plus rip-offs are rampant on deviantart as well... people uploading other people's work and calling it their own.

I don't know... maybe it's different with writing. As someone else said, if it's a direct copy there are legal actions that a person can take... but I guess I'm still entertaining that well-worn fantasy that someday I won't need to build boring corporate website templates and can just focus on the kind of creative work I love... writing or illustration or whatever... I don't need to make zillions, just enough to get by would be just fine...

I suppose part of me is still reflexively trying to protect that dream... or at least, is cautious about taking any action that might jeopardize... still, even after only really posting here for a week, it seems like the benefits outweigh the risk.

 

[Steerpike]

Wynnara:

While I do occasionally post short pieces in the Showcase, I don't post excerpts from either of the novels I have in progress. The reason is pretty simple: I'm going to try the traditional publishing route with those. Publishers some to be all over the place in terms of what they consider 'published.' I've seen publishers who consider anything published on the internet to be 'published,' even if it is in a critique forum accessible only by website members. If the publisher you approach takes that viewpoint (which seems to me to be rather harsh, but it is what it is), then you've blown your chance with them by publishing in a critique forum.

Other publishers are OK if you post small excerpts in a password-protected forum. Some of them recommend removing the excerpts once you've received feedback (which I some times do, and why I would not post an excerpt at a place like writingforums.org, which forbids removal by its user terms).

My advice, if you're working on short stories, materials you plan to self publish, and so on, go ahead and put them here. Once you receive feedback, consider taking the text down (also, note that you have to consider the possibility that people will quote large portions of your post when reviewing it; in my view it is inconsiderate to do so because the author can no longer control the content, but it is common). If you are working on a novel for traditional publication, don't post it online. Instead, if you have a particular issue you are struggling with or want help with, write a short piece of fiction that involves those problem areas (an action piece, for example). Post THAT here instead of an excerpt of the actual work. Then, both you and those commenting get the benefits offered by the reviewing process, but you haven't put your commercially-important work online.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[Wynnara]

My advice, if you're working on short stories, materials you plan to self publish, and so on, go ahead and put them here. Once you receive feedback, consider taking the text down (also, note that you have to consider the possibility that people will quote large portions of your post when reviewing it; in my view it is inconsiderate to do so because the author can no longer control the content, but it is common). If you are working on a novel for traditional publication, don't post it online. Instead, if you have a particular issue you are struggling with or want help with, write a short piece of fiction that involves those problem areas (an action piece, for example). Post THAT here instead of an excerpt of the actual work. Then, both you and those commenting get the benefits offered by the reviewing process, but you haven't put your commercially-important work online.

Just a few thoughts.

Whooops... and THAT answers my question... excuse me, I have to go pull the first 1600 words of my novel out of Showcase.

 

[Ireth]

*sighs* Guess I need to do the same, both here and in another forum I've put chapters of my work up for crit. Though the crit section of the other forum is protected so as to be unfindable by Google or other search engines, so that might be safe... I hope?

 

[Caged Maiden]

I'd like to add that I have a crit partner who has now read two of my unpublished novels in their entirety. Do I worry? No. In fact, I am helping her to strengthen her own writing and actively brainstorm ideas with her. This question came up two nights ago, with her saying, "I like that. I think I'm going to do that. Do you mind if I use it?"
To which I replied, "Of course you should use it! It's perfect. That's what I'm here for, to help you get ideas. If I wanted to use it, I would, and probably execute it entirely differently than you will."

Put simply, if eleven of the people on this site and I were all writing stories about a young elf woman who showed magical promise and went on a journey to increase her powers and learn about the world, we would have twelve recognizably different stories, so that alone lets me freely send my work to people I want to.

I don't wnt to tell you how to feel, but I hope you feel comfortable sharing, it's an important step to improving your work. Getting opinions from writers and readers only makes you stronger if you find the right people who will offer honest feedback.

 

[Steerpike]

I tend to err on the side of caution. It doesn't mean everyone has to do the same. If you have a particular publisher in mind, try to find out how they treat password-protected forum posts. I suspect most of them will be fine with excerpts posted for critique, particularly if removed afterward. But I do know, at least as of a couple of years ago, there were still some traditional publishers who frowned on any internet publication, even in password-protected forums.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

I tend to err on the side of caution. It doesn't mean everyone has to do the same. If you have a particular publisher in mind, try to find out how they treat password-protected forum posts. I suspect most of them will be fine with excerpts posted for critique, particularly if removed afterward. But I do know, at least as of a couple of years ago, there were still some traditional publishers who frowned on any internet publication, even in password-protected forums.

I agree with this, where with ideas I'm fairly open, I'm more cautious with writing excerpts. I tend to prefer live writing groups or people I feel an affinity with online. I don't usually post WIP material publicly, but for experimental writing or practice pieces I think it's the perfect venue.

 

[The Blue Lotus]

IF someone were to see something I posted and steal it would it bother me, maybe a little.
But then again I'd have to stop and think, wow, was my idea really that cool that someone would take the time to rip it off after reading a few bits?

Every word known to man has been written already, we are all borrowing ideas, fragments of ideas etc and using them in new and interesting ways.

Besides, if you stop and look at the trash that gets published these days; I think it is safe to say that publishers standards have gone down in this regard. Twilight is horrid and many of the theams were (cough cough) Borrowed from other better works, then you have the 50 shades books, which are basicly twilight with new names and settings.

Imitation they say is the sincerest form of flattery. Just be happy you are good enough for people to want to be like.