Don't be afraid of conflict

[Telcontar]

This is in relation to the recently locked thread "Does alcohol improve your writing?"

It turned into a fairly heated argument, but along the way a statement was made about 'creating tension.'

We should not be afraid of tension. Argument is good, and both tension and conflict can be good. If we're to have mature arguments over very tough issues on this board, we all need to learn to debate without anger or petty sniping. I can speak with people over all sorts of issues - drug use, rape, violence, murder, capital punishment, war, what-have-you - because I can detach from the issue and speak rationally, ignoring whatever my own emotions might be telling me to do. I believe this is a very valuable skill. It is a skill that those in the above-mentioned thread should attempt to cultivate, as well.

I do not wish to see a lot of locked threads and banned topics on these boards. I have a strong dislike of censorship and limitation of speech. To that end, I hope we can all adopt some sort of ethic for treating these issues rationally. I invite everyone to use this thread to discuss that ethic and the ways in which we can make it evident.

 

[Steerpike]

I agree with what you wrote there, Telcontar.

I think one problem that arises is people have many different styles of communication. My style tends to be somewhat sarcastic, and somewhat "confrontational" (and I don't use that word in a negative way). In direct interpersonal communications, people tend not to be offended because they can hear my tone, observe body language, facial expression, and the like, and are likely to take my comments as intended. And I approach their comments in the same way.

On an internet forum you lose all that and are left with just the words, and people tend to project their own personalities onto what they are reading. If a person reads something that is sarcastic or sniping, and they themselves wouldn't use sarcastic or sniping language unless they were angry or intended to hurt someone's feelings, then they assume that is what the other forum member is doing.

I think much (most?) of the misunderstandings in internet forums come from a person reading something and then projecting themselves onto what they are reading to assess the intentions of the poster. It is generally a mistake to do this. I like sarcastic banter, even if it occasionally dips to the level of mild insult, and I don't assume the other person is angry when I see it because I'm not angry when I post such things. Of course, that leads to the opposite problem, which is something I am susceptible to - not realizing when another person's feelings have actually been hurt in an exchange, because the same comments would not hurt my feelings.

It is a difficult problem for mods. But I'm also in favor of little or no censorship of posts. That's just my personal preference.

 

[The Blue Lotus]

I for one hope that they did not lock the thread on my account!

I was editing a post to inform everyone that while I was not upset by the rape reference, I could easily see how others could be.

I just happen to be made of some pretty tough stuff, it is perhaps the only reason I made it through my life as ballanced as I am.

I only wish the same could be said of everyone.

Regardless, some tact should be used when dealing with others.
You never know where they have been or what they have had happen to them, or what scars still linger that are not visiable to the world. There is never a good time to be ignorant or insensitive. IMHO.

~May you all be blessed~

 

[The Blue Lotus]

Also,
A big part of the problem online is that little things that we all use as cues like tone, inflection, even body language just are not here. All we have are the words on the screen and the emotions that we all feel. Sometimes the two don't mesh well.

 

[Reaver]

Also,
A big part of the problem online is that little things that we all use as cues like tone, inflection, even body language just are not here. All we have are the words on the screen and the emotions that we all feel. Sometimes the two don't mesh well.

Isn't that what the smilies are for?






Sorry...I'm just being facetious.(Why isn't there an emoticon for that?)
You make a very good point, Lotus. Thanks for being a voice of reason and calm.

 

[The Blue Lotus]

We need more emoticons! They go a long way in preventing these types of ... Misunderstandings.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

I for one hope that they did not lock the thread on my account!

No... I don't think you were the problem.

EDIT: By the way, if you need it, you can add users to your ignore list.

 

[Ghost]

Yes, more emoticons! There are times when I consider my emoticons more carefully than my words. Yeah, it's pretty bad. I don't do the whole "cool, detached, rational" thing. It's not my style. In spite of that, I don't think I'm in a feud with anyone. Any takers?

A little friction is fine. To be expected, even, in a community like this. It's not a bad thing until posters make personal attacks against each other and drown threads in negativity. Plus, it derails the threads. I'm glad I wasn't invested in finding out whether drinking improves writing or not.

Locked threads, hurt feelings and wounded egos are depressing, so I hope it doesn't become a trend. Most posters here seem level-headed and/or friendly, so I'm not worried about right now.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

In spite of that, I don't think I'm in a feud with anyone. Any takers?

Let's see, I have a slot free... Tuesday at 11:30. I'll pencil you in.

On the original topic... it's perfectly fine for people to have conflicts of opinion and perspective. As you say, Ouroboros, the problem comes when people resort to personal attacks or excessive negativity. Some people just make you angry because they can't have a rational discussion, and you just have to put them on your ignore list, or you'll go nuts trying to reason with them.

 

[Black Dragon]

Sadly, I missed out on the excitement in that thread. I was too busy getting wasted.

Just to clarify, the topic of the discussion wasn't banned or censored. The thread was locked because it had devolved into an endless argument, and was becoming toxic. No one was being helped by that thread continuing. On the contrary, it had to be locked to contain the toxicity before it got out of hand.

Myrddin totally made the right call. And as he said, the participants are free to discuss the topic in another thread. But that particular flow of discussion had reached a point of no return, and allowing it to continue would have only done harm.

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

I just happen to be made of some pretty tough stuff

You certainly are!

Thanks for sharing, and for being so level-headed.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

Sadly, I missed out on the excitement in that thread. I was too busy getting wasted.

*spffttpftptftt*

 

[myrddin173]

I for one hope that they did not lock the thread on my account!

In my opinion your post had to be posted, but I have to be honest it was a contributing factor. By no means however should you blame yourself.

As for this thread, I am all for argument. (I'm an argumentative person by nature, I enjoy the intellectual stimulation). I agree that it is a good thing, as long as it stays mature. Sadly, the aforementioned thread had not. It was a difficult decision and I did not like making it, but I think it was the right one. That said I hope that the discussion can continue, in a different thread, and maintain the maturity level I believe we are capable of.

Edit:Ninja'd again. Thank you Black Dragon.

 

[Devor]

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have gotten involved. I thought someone was a little out of line; I shouldn't have said so. In previous forum communities I've been involved with that would have been an effective way to resolve the situation, but I was also a Mod there, believe it or not, and people were a little closer together. I will be steering far away from conflicts here in the future.

 

[Xanados]

I will say this only once: I am not afraid of conflict. That is the sole reason why I continued as far as I went. You people say that you want rational discussion? That is what I believe I was having. I wanted someone to argue with me about my opinion. I, like Myrdinn, enjoy heated debates. I’m not immature as to be overwhelmed with emotion. That is why I used the words “cold” and “clinical” in one of my posts last night. You say that you want to have normal discussion about serious topics without them being emotion fuelled? Then why I am, clearly, the one being blamed? I simply stated a fact. I was then slated by The Blue Lotus with an emotional story about rape.

 

[The Blue Lotus]

I will say this only once: I am not afraid of conflict. That is the sole reason why I continued as far as I went. You people say that you want rational discussion? That is what I believe I was having. I wanted someone to argue with me about my opinion. I, like Myrdinn, enjoy heated debates. I’m not immature as to be overwhelmed with emotion. That is why I used the words “cold” and “clinical” in one of my posts last night. You say that you want to have normal discussion about serious topics without them being emotion fuelled? Then why I am, clearly, the one being blamed? I simply stated a fact. I was then slated by The Blue Lotus with an emotional story about rape.

Xan,
If you are unable to understand how such a rude, uncalled for, totaly insensitive statement the likes of which you made last night could upset and possiably harm someone else I truely pity you.
Words even when spoken by someone you have never met can and do cause real harm.
I highly doubt you are such a cold hearted bastard as to go about life as normal, if you found out someone killed themselves because something you posted without thinking about, caused them to tailspin into a depression and kill themselves.
Just watch what you say and how you say it, try not to be a jerk.

 

[Xanados]

Xan,
If you are unable to understand how such a rude, uncalled for, totaly insensitive statement the likes of which you made last night could upset and possiably harm someone else I truely pity you.
Words even when spoken by someone you have never met can and do cause real harm.
I highly doubt you are such a cold hearted bastard as to go about life as normal, if you found out someone killed themselves because something you posted without thinking about, caused them to tailspin into a depression and kill themselves.
Just watch what you say and how you say it, try not to be a jerk.

You still don't fully understand my statment. Stop taking this so far. You are the only one being over emotional here, I'm afraid. I wasn't even being a jerk about rape. I was making a proper statment that people do, in fact, sometimes play the victim card for attention. SOME PEOPLE.

Did I ONCE make fun of you? Did I once insult people who have been raped? NO.

Why am I a jerk?

 

[The Blue Lotus]

Here are some fun facts for you Xan.
Statistics | RAINN | Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network
1:4 women will be abused in their lives. 44% of those abused are abused by someone they know and trust.
Please educate yourselfs people. It is not something that should be made light of. If the fact that it happenes does not make you sick to your tummy than something is wrong. Are there some who milk the preverbaial cow? Sure, but by far most never speak about it.
Internalizing is part of the problem. We need to remove the stigma, the shame, and that blanket of silence that tends to go hand in hand with that subject.
All I said was that you ( since I know you kinda ) would not be happy to find out that something you said really honestly hurt someone.
Now I am going to leave it at that and not check this thread again for a while, or any others for that matter have a happy new year.

 

[Xanados]

Oh, GIVE IT A REST. I'm sorry, but you aren't listening to me. It pains me to see how much you are using this to your advantage. WE GET IT. I'M NOT SAYING THAT RAPE IS A LIGHT-HEARTED SUBJECT. I'M SAYING THAT SOME, I REPEAT, SOME PEOPLE EXAGGERATE.

Saying "please educate yourselves, people" like a smug person is not helping your cause. We understand!

I feel the use of caps-lock is the only way to get that through to you, at the risk of being banned.

Enough.

Edit: Actually, I cannot stand for this injustice. When did I ever say that rape was something to be made light of? When, I ask you? I am saying the opposite! Your latest post seems to be disregarding mine completley. If I get banned because of this post, I am going to be furious. I have done nothing wrong to you.

 

[Steerpike]

Oh, GIVE IT A REST. I'm sorry, but you aren't listening to me. It pains me to see how much you are using this to your advantage. WE GET IT. I'M NOT SAYING THAT RAPE IS A LIGHT-HEARTED THING. I'M SAYING THAT SOME, I REPEAT, SOME PEOPLE EXAGGERATE.

SERIOUSLY?

I feel the use of caps-lock is the only way to get that through to you, at the risk of being banned.

Enough.

Dude, give it a rest. Whatever point you are trying to make should now be considered an epic fail. You are coming across like an emotionally-overwrought and immature child. Just drop the subject and move on. Please.