Online writing groups?

[Chessie]

Nimue, to answer your question, no. Things haven't always been balanced in my experience. There have been times when my partner(s) have critted my work more than I have theirs and vice versa. But that's typically been due to life circumstance and where we are at any given point in our manuscripts. It's always evened out though. Patience and caring for the other person as a human being with feelings and responsibilities is the biggest gift to your crit partners. For example, one of my good writing buddies lives in Austria. Ok...that's like, as far away from me as possible. Our crits go 1-2 a month, and it's a pace we're comfortable at. Sometimes he reads more of my work, sometimes I read more of his work. But we've been doing this for 2...almost 3 years now and we'll wait long stretches for one another to be finished with work before starting up again.Sometimes that happens.

I'm also lucky in that one of my readers is just that...a reader. She's a friend of mine and we got to talking one day about fantasy romance and boom! Hey, would you like to read my work? And she has no agenda, is not a writer, and her suggestions are pure in the sense that she doesn't see prose or adverbs or any BS like that that I've sometimes gotten from other writers (no one on this forum). She tells me what works for her, what doesn't, and I trust her opinion because she's an avid reader in the target audience I'm aiming for. She's an absolute blessing. But she's not always available either!

So patience, working with people's schedules, finding out what works and adjusting are important factors. Also, depends on your speed as an individual writer. Sometimes I bang shit out and other times I don't, like in the summer. Crits are scarce between myself and writing partners during the Alaskan summer, which are the shortest on earth.

 

[Devor]

I'm glad this has opened up into a big discussion.

For me, I write insanely slow. I don't produce enough to keep up with a serious critiquing partner. It's one of the reasons I pushed Black Dragon for the Writer's Work forum. First I need to focus on getting to a place where I feel comfortable enough with my writing habits to take that next step, work-wise, of committing to a writing group. And it's not just my writing habits - a critique group is an extra level of work and commitment that you have to be ready for.

Which is a shame because I really enjoy offering critiques and feedback.

 

[Nimue]

That's how I feel as well, Devor, to a tee. I suppose it's rather like dating--you need to work on yourself before you start looking to connect with other people. I think when I'm writing enough and well enough to think of myself as "a writer"--maybe that would be a good time to seek out a group, if it ever happens.

 

[Heliotrope]

I'd say we have a normal person pace (as in, we are normal people with jobs and families, not pro writers who have all day to work on our novels) with my crit group. I have my core group of three plus me and then one person I trade with infrequently. I'll tell you a little overview to show you how realistic things are:

One submits a few chapters every 3-6 months?
One goes on crazy rampages churning out two or three chapters in succession, but she likes to go back and fix stuff before moving on, and she has a busy home life so we can go months without anything new.

For myself, I don't write during the summer, so they went three months with me just critting but not submitting any thing. Now I'm submitting a chapter every few weeks, but they are very short and because I trust my partners so much they are very early, non-edited drafts.

See, for me, what I look for is developmental stuff early on, so I have to be ok with my partners looking at crap and knowing what they are looking at. I'm not about to spend a ton of time editing and making beautiful a draft that they tell me needs major developmental work. I rewrote my opening chapters for my novel four times. With my group I can whip up a thousand words, basically unedited, and send it off to them knowing that they they understand they are looking at tone, voice, narrative, and not a finished product. They get back to me asap saying "yes, this pov is better" or "not feeling connected to the character here" and I can move forward without having to spend a ton of time editing something I'm not keeping.

I love my group for that, but I had to be ok with allowing them to read very raw drafts. We don't judge each other by raw drafts.

 

[Chessie]

Developmental is key. Clarity of prose is important so that we can get to the story, but I'd argue that a good story is there regardless of beautiful prose. The problem with most books/manuscripts is the lack of a good story. This should be the #1 thing any crit partner/writing buddy helps you focus on, not adverbs. This is the main reason why I stopped using Scribophile. I think a good deal of the writers on there are still new to the craft and spew shizz like adverbs, pov is off when it's really omniscient, show not tell when sometimes you need to tell, etc.

 

[Chessie]

That's how I feel as well, Devor, to a tee. I suppose it's rather like dating--you need to work on yourself before you start looking to connect with other people. I think when I'm writing enough and well enough to think of myself as "a writer"--maybe that would be a good time to seek out a group, if it ever happens.

May I suggest something? How about partnering up with someone who also writes at your pace? Why not give it a shot and see what happens?

 

[Caged Maiden]

To answer Nimue's question, pacing is relative for each partnership. As you know, I just went through a thing with my medication and wasn't able to write OR read. Which was a definite drawback and I apologized for it. While I felt guilty folks were waiting on me, I know they care about me and though they didn't have to say it, they all told me they were okay and to get well before fulfilling my commitments. I felt loved.

Sometimes, it's important to establish things up front. Many people want to just "see where it goes" which is a great theory, but hard to practice. The main reason for that is that if people are working at different paces, there can be a one-sided benefit to the exchanges. now, that's not always bad, but everyone must weigh their critique relationship as they see it. Have some guidelines in place for folks to agree on up front, and it makes that a whole lot easier. I choose to periodically reassess how things are going, and sometimes flat out ask. "Hey, I noticed you haven't sent anything for this week. Something going on? Can I help at all?"

The thing is, you'll get to know your partners. If someone is always prompt with emails and then falls off the face of the planet...well, it's hard not to worry. If someone usually does a thorough critique and over the last few months they've gotten shorter and shorter, maybe start being concerned. Ask questions. Open up a dialogue. Air grievances. If you're tenacious partners, you can go really far together. And if your partner is consistently inconsistent or nonexistent...consider finding a replacement.

Bottom line is that if the partnership works for the members, no one else's opinions ought to matter. Each individual needs to decide what they will do and what they won't do, and sometimes you don't know those answers till you've had some less than ideal circumstances.

i don't want to talk too much about past critique relationships because even if i'm talking about someone that I met outside this site, I worry it'll sound like I'm actually talking about someone here. I would hate to have that confusion make anyone feel bad.

Suffice to say, I really don't have any complaints about any of the critique partners I've ever had, or any of the groups I've participated in. The ones that ended did so on good terms, and the ones that just sort of faded are okay, too. The thing is, sometimes people come together for a short time, while other times, people stay together forever. Either one is okay, as long as everyone's happy with the arrangement.

It's all learning experiences. I've put together groups that have failed, and ones that did really well. I've joined groups that did great and then turned south. I've appreciated each and every opportunity I've had to work with other writers, and I'm thankful for the friends I've made who will be my friends forever. In fact, there have been times I've liked a person a whole lot more than I liked their work, and so being friends and supporting each other even when you don't trade is a great opportunity, too. Hanging out with other writers turns this really lonely, misunderstood journey into something worth laughing at or crying about sometimes.

 

[Chessie]

In fact, there have been times I've liked a person a whole lot more than I liked their work, and so being friends and supporting each other even when you don't trade is a great opportunity, too. Hanging out with other writers turns this really lonely, misunderstood journey into something worth laughing at or crying about sometimes.

Truly so! One of my writing buddies and I exchange pics of our kids and areas where we live. We've been writing buddies for ages and the pics add such humanity to our exchanges. Making friends with other writers is always nice because no one irl ever wants to talk about such a boring thing as writing a novel. My rl friends and family could seriously care less about what I'm doing (except my husband, but all of this directly ties into my happiness so...maybe that's why he cares).

And I do feel supported by friends who I've never exchanged manuscripts with, so that's a good point, too Maiden.

 

[Caged Maiden]

Thanks, guys for listening to my long posts. I feel appreciated when people are getting something from my blabbing. Trading and befriending other writers is what has had the most impact on my writing. I have people who challenge me, keep me sane through the hard times, just shoot the shit when I'm down, and talk craft to open my eyes to possibilities I hadn't considered.

At the end of the day, I need these people, and I hope that they get as much from me as I get from them. I've taken a fair amount of new writers under my wing throughout my stay here, and I've heard more than once, "Wow, you're really helping me out. I feel bad I can't help you out, too." But little do these new writers know (though I tell them) that their fresh eyes help me so much, too. Newer writers sometimes feel like they don't have much of value to folks who have been at this a while, and I can't work to dispel that belief enough. You ARE valuable. I can teach you about the craft and getting effect from your words. But what I no longer have is that new writer passion that really gets stuff flowing. I'm too much of an editor at this point, which folks seem to appreciate loads, but in exchange, I pick their untainted mind for the innocent perspective I can no longer pretend to have.

Sure, I often say you should find peers in this thing, so people can grow together and explore different facets of writing at the same time. It's worked for me loads, when my partner and I are tackling the exact same sort of sticky dialogues, defining characters in the first paragraphs, etc., but I take on new writers for two reasons. One, to pay it forward, in exchange for all the advice and help I got from people more experienced than myself, and because if I can give someone a leg up and help them avoid the pitfalls I fell headlong into, well, that's a small price for me to pay in exchange for their honesty and fresh views.

So...I recommend as folks get more experience and sort of lose their way, to take some time out of their strenuous editing schedule and make a new friend who is just finding their way. Help them discover their real voice. Help encourage them through a rough draft, where so many people get self-conscious and quit. Help them learn the writing rules and learn where it's totally awesome to break them. Help dull those common voices that say, Show, don't Tell, nuke all the adverbs, edit seven times before you share your work, etc.. Those pieces of advice are GREAT...sometimes. But other times they stifle someone just beginning this journey, and what people need to focus on is writing a good story. Understanding why character traits affect readers, how to use a character lens, how to use their real voice with real words, rather than bashing their work with a thesaurus for every description.

I hope I've been a benefit to everyone who's crossed my path, of course, but no advice, just as no critique partner, is a universal fit. I hope that the people who choose to work with me feel supported, motivated, and strengthened by the words I give in advice and feedback. I want to inspire folks to finish their first books, their first stories. If I can help them get ahead of the learning curve, I'm all too happy to do it, because since meeting a few people who really held my hand in the beginning of my time here, I've grown so much. I never wanted to publish, and I didn't have a clue what it meant to be a professional writer. I'm still learning, and lately, I've finally found my own voice for novels. It was really frustrating that people liked my short stories, but seriously disliked my novels. I didn't know what I was doing wrong, but it seemed I was doing it on about every page. It was discussions here that led me to have my breakthroughs. A breakthrough I shared like on the Make It Worse thread, and reading Donald Maass' books. I've learned to be myself, and that was all due to some very clever and generous folks who read and reread as I honed in on what I really sound like. Something I was completely unable to do a year ago.

Yeah, critique partnerships are like wine...better as they age. But you have to start somewhere, and I can't encourage folks enough to begin with a message to someone they like and who seems to share their same sentiment in posts. If you engage in the community for a while, you'll find the folks who always seem to share your views. Or bring something to you attention that really resonates with you. After you get that feeling, send a message. Thank the person for their thoughtful response to your thread and then ask what they're working on. It's pretty easy. I've met dozens of writer friends that way. And while some of them have disappeared from this site, many are still here, or have become my facebook friends, or just email me every few months and let me know how they're doing and ask me how I'm doing. It's great to have a support network. In fact, all day, I've been thinking about those people and realizing that while I was going through my medication thing over the past three months, I haven't been sending out those sorts of emails, just being a friend. It was too hard to think, so composing emails was such a daunting concept. I suppose it's never too late to correct a problem, though.

 

[Gribba]

I'm glad this has opened up into a big discussion.

Yeah... me too, it is great and allows us to ask questions, explore, get ideas and be inspired by others experiences.
And not to forget, it is fantastic that, there are people willing to share such information with us!

 

[Gribba]

So to answer your question I found it helpful to really put myself out there, publicly. Do some top scribe challenges. Post in the showcase. Participate in discussions and you will learn who you connect with and who is at a similar skill level.

@Gribba..many people here have children (all 3 of us do) so finding someone that understands a steady slow pace is more probable than you think. Helio and Maiden are right about putting yourself out there. If you're doing NaNo, that would be a good way of reading people's snippets, building community, and seeing who might be a good fit. So...feeling the forums out is a good starting point.

I have to admit, I am often, the Lurker on the forum, so I have to work on the participate in discussions part.

I'm an archer, too! And a mom of four (aged 5, 6, 8, 10). So yeah...we can relate.

Also, your English is excellent. That's something I wanted to mention before, but was hesitant to do so, in case it might not come out right and maybe be offensive?
[...]

Regarding privacy, understand that I'm only talking about my preference. I want to know who my partners are in real life. I want to know their personal struggles, their hobbies, their core values. It helps me relate to them, understand who they are and what fuels their writing, and it also just helps me care and want to do my very best. I often give people stock advice when we meet, because it's all I can do for a stranger. But as our relationship gets rolling, I see THEM come alive a little and I cling to that and use their own personal experiences as fodder for my feedback suggestions.

[...]

But as you gain some experience trading, you'll realize things you like and don't like, and then future relationships are easier to discern whether they're working or not. Again, like dating. You only have to date a few folks to learn some things you can't stand, and when you find someone you really do like, you can choose to marry them or not...get personal or keep some distance.

Helios right. Start here! Ask around and send some PMs. you might find a few friends, or you might find some partners who will stick around a couple years. I've had people for years that traded with me off and on because they valued my opinion. It wasn't anything steady, but always a welcome sight to see an email about their progress, what they were getting published, or what they wanted me to have a look at before they queried agents. For the most part, everyone here is pretty approachable and willing to help.

Cool a fellow archer!
And I do not find it offensive, so, thanks.

I'd say we have a normal person pace (as in, we are normal people with jobs and families, not pro writers who have all day to work on our novels) with my crit group. I have my core group of three plus me and then one person I trade with infrequently. I'll tell you a little overview to show you how realistic things are:

One submits a few chapters every 3-6 months?
One goes on crazy rampages churning out two or three chapters in succession, but she likes to go back and fix stuff before moving on, and she has a busy home life so we can go months without anything new.

For myself, I don't write during the summer, so they went three months with me just critting but not submitting any thing. Now I'm submitting a chapter every few weeks, but they are very short and because I trust my partners so much they are very early, non-edited drafts.

See, for me, what I look for is developmental stuff early on, so I have to be ok with my partners looking at crap and knowing what they are looking at. I'm not about to spend a ton of time editing and making beautiful a draft that they tell me needs major developmental work. I rewrote my opening chapters for my novel four times. With my group I can whip up a thousand words, basically unedited, and send it off to them knowing that they they understand they are looking at tone, voice, narrative, and not a finished product. They get back to me asap saying "yes, this pov is better" or "not feeling connected to the character here" and I can move forward without having to spend a ton of time editing something I'm not keeping.

I love my group for that, but I had to be ok with allowing them to read very raw drafts. We don't judge each other by raw drafts.

Thank you all for your answers. It is nice to see that the amount of sharing is not as much as I was afraid it was. There is possibility for groups out there, that I might fit into or be able to fit into my situation.

And thanks for the overview, as I was freaking out, about how fast one should be writing. What you guys are pointing out is fantastic, it gives us, that do not have the experience, something to lean up against as we plow forward and try to find our own group and what expectations we can bring along with us.

Heliotrope, I like the point you bring up that sending the raw skeleton of a text and the group members look at the tone of what they are reading and understand that this is not the edited version, that comes later. I can see how this allows the development to come to the surface early on but that of course requires close and personal relationship with the group members. That takes trust to be able to be ok with allowing them to read the raw drafts, I take my hat off for you, brave spirit (and yes I have a hat on, often).

And from what you guys are pointing out, I am sure that, if I am going to be able to be in such a group, I will need to feel connected to the people and have the personal relationship. I can imagine that it is hard to keep it going if one is not invested in the people, like with books we read or write we need to feel invested in the characters or it will be hard to continue reading/writing. I have read books where I had to stop as I was unable to connect with the MC and to me the book was doomed. I am pretty sure that is something that would happen as well if I would not get invested in the people I work with. But also as mentioned many times in this thread, when you know someone you can better understand their writing style and voice, that is helpful when crit is needed and also when development is needed.


Thanks... I will try to be active on the forum and try not to be too freaked out about it... :balanced:

 

[Gribba]

[...] I have people who challenge me, keep me sane through the hard times, just shoot the shit when I'm down, and talk craft to open my eyes to possibilities I hadn't considered.

At the end of the day, I need these people, and I hope that they get as much from me as I get from them. I've taken a fair amount of new writers under my wing throughout my stay here, and I've heard more than once, "Wow, you're really helping me out. I feel bad I can't help you out, too." But little do these new writers know (though I tell them) that their fresh eyes help me so much, too. Newer writers sometimes feel like they don't have much of value to folks who have been at this a while, and I can't work to dispel that belief enough. You ARE valuable. I can teach you about the craft and getting effect from your words. But what I no longer have is that new writer passion that really gets stuff flowing. I'm too much of an editor at this point, which folks seem to appreciate loads, but in exchange, I pick their untainted mind for the innocent perspective I can no longer pretend to have.

Sure, I often say you should find peers in this thing, so people can grow together and explore different facets of writing at the same time. [...] but I take on new writers for two reasons. One, to pay it forward, in exchange for all the advice and help I got from people more experienced than myself, and because if I can give someone a leg up and help them avoid the pitfalls I fell headlong into, well, that's a small price for me to pay in exchange for their honesty and fresh views.

So...I recommend as folks get more experience and sort of lose their way, to take some time out of their strenuous editing schedule and make a new friend who is just finding their way. Help them discover their real voice. Help encourage them through a rough draft, where so many people get self-conscious and quit. Help them learn the writing rules and learn where it's totally awesome to break them. Help dull those common voices that say, Show, don't Tell, nuke all the adverbs, edit seven times before you share your work, etc.. Those pieces of advice are GREAT...sometimes. But other times they stifle someone just beginning this journey, and what people need to focus on is writing a good story. Understanding why character traits affect readers, how to use a character lens, how to use their real voice with real words, rather than bashing their work with a thesaurus for every description.

[...]

Yeah, critique partnerships are like wine...better as they age. But you have to start somewhere, and I can't encourage folks enough to begin with a message to someone they like and who seems to share their same sentiment in posts. If you engage in the community for a while, you'll find the folks who always seem to share your views. Or bring something to you attention that really resonates with you. After you get that feeling, send a message. Thank the person for their thoughtful response to your thread and then ask what they're working on. It's pretty easy. [...]

I really like this, of course it is good to find like minded people to grow with as a group but adding a new person form time to time to help them along is also wonderful, I think.

I am glad you mention that your group challenges you as that is something I would love to find in a group, so there is hope out there.


Now, another question, so, lets say I form a group and we are all at a similar stage. Do we then work together to get better at the craft with challenges, info and development talk or do we enlist an experienced person (from maybe another more advanced group) to come ind and give a little guidance or do we go it alone and hope we are going in the right direction?


I think you guys have given me so much to consider and when reading your posts, I dot down some points, I think would be important for me to have in a group. It also helps to get some perspective when it comes to reality vs. ideas via the experiences you share here.
I feel I have so much better understanding of what to expect and what I can bring to the table and what I would like to get out of such a group.
So thank you guys, you are amazing bunch!
:grouphug:

 

[Caged Maiden]

As far as I've found, when I'm working with other people, they automatically bring new skills with them. This is why I say to find peers. It's honestly tedious for a group to be dragging one person along who refuses to learn basic skills. Likewise, if four members of the group are newer, and one person already has a career they're working on, the newer people may feel frustrating and inferior to the one person who is advanced. It's just better all around to have people at the same stage of their journey.

Think ahead of time what you're interested in and what kind of commitment works best for you (if you're forming a group, rather than joining one, that is). I joined an established group that met in a chat room one night a week and discussed the chapters written that week that we all read. I've also worked with partners and we'd meet on video chat once a month and critted one chapter each a week. I've also begun groups, some of which fell apart because of communication issues, and one that is successful because we are all on the same page and flexible about our needs and pace.

Maybe you're interested in folks who are writing in your genre. Or perhaps who are willing to meet in a chat room. Obviously if you are in Denmark and Chesterama is in Alaska you won't be able to meet at a convenient time for both. Another thing is how people give feedback. I've committed to group crits in the past and when I sent my manuscript, I felt it was pretty solid...but the things I offered to read needed considerable work...and I'm not trying to be nasty, but it gets old pretty fast if people are sending you a mess and calling it "ready" because at that point, you either need to accept that you're going to be writing a lot of comments (most of which will be rejected, because this other person also considered their work good to go) or you'll be questioning whether that person will really be able to help you. I had one partner who just inserted a bunch of adverbs into my dialogue tags and then asked me to include in my story what I would call "belabored descriptions" those that don't really pertain to the story, but paint clearer visual pictures of characters and what they see. Now...i'm never going to do that, so I need a partner who is either okay reading my story and imagining a lot of what I leave un-described, or who will forgo commenting on it over and over, and accept my personal preference. Again, these are the things I find often break crit relationships. See, because when I opened that lady's story, I wanted to throw up in my mouth every time the character walked into a room and I had to sit through paragraphs of what she saw. (OMG, I look so picky. But then again, I've posted a hundred times that i'm a tough nut to crack, and when something really wows me, the praise is pretty gushing.)

If you want to find other writers who are casually writing around work and family, it's great to mention that up front. It'll warn away those folks who are looking for once a week chapters.

You can ask to exchange shorts to sample writing skill and style and make sure everyone's critique style matches or is acceptable to everyone else. Some people use macs and don't have Word. Others use pdfs and you will have to write feedback in emails. i write comments right into the text in red font to keep it simple and not break my immersion as I read. I'd find it really tedious to have an open email with a running commentary to accompany the pdf. (this is just an example, not "this is the right way")

One group I joined I had to submit a piece for them to sample read to make sure I was up to snuff. An application had to tell why I was interested in the group, and the members voted on whether to accept me or not.

Anyways, so let's say you hooked up four people and everyone's pleased with the feedback they got. Your partners pointed out some things you hadn't seen or thought of, and you feel like they'll challenge you (and each other, of course). The best part of meeting new writers and getting to know their style is that you will usually see that one person is really good at beautiful descriptions with colorful language that makes their story an enjoyable read despite the fact that their dialogue is weak. Another has a wonderful character and world, but has a hard time keeping the story details pertinent. Another needs help with action scenes because they feel choreographed.

You'll notice that people may be at the same stage of writing, say, good but not great, and you'll be able to help each other by giving feedback and borrowing skills from each other.

I have a partner I ask about my rough drafts. I send her everything and ask whether i'm crazy or it's working. With her feedback I can then assess whether I'm doing the job I'm trying to do, or whether I've let something big go wrong. I trust her implicitly. So, even within my awesome group, I have a partner I send rough stuff to before I rewrite and submit the second draft to the group.

When i have an inspiration, I ask the group what they think. "Hey guys, I was thinking about my antagonist and considered using him as a POV character for about five chapters. Thoughts?" And the discussion begins. At the end of the email chain, I've been able to weigh pros and cons, and get a clearer idea of what I might want to do and what I should avoid. I find that whatever I'm writing, I do so more confidently if I feel I've got the green light from the people I trust more than myself, and a few helpful suggestions before I undertake that particular scene/ series of events.

Again...this is about what works for YOU. If you feel more confident joining a group that's already established, just be prepared for being the new kid on the block and having to forge relationships with other people who already are well acquainted. If you're forming a group, be prepared for some personalities to not mix and having to mediate a little. Again, it helps to have "rules" agreed upon before any actual trading. In that case, you might ask everyone to send an introductory email that tells the group what their background is. How long they've been writing, what they think are their strengths, what they think are their weaknesses. What they hope to get from the group, how they like to critique and what kind of feedback they find really useful, what sort of story they're working on, what they read for fun. It's hard to mention EVERYTHING in one email, but it'll help people start conversations.

And in the event that you do have a conflict arise, deal with it swiftly. If someone is being too harsh, as the leader of the group, send a polite email explaining that the group is intended as a learning group and that some writers haven't exchanged before and respectful feedback is expected. Honest, but respectful. Some groups have rules that for every negative you have to find a positive. I personally find those kinds of guidelines limiting, but then I prefer to have a running commentary. I like to say things like, "Is this foreshadowing? oh I hope it is, because I can see this blowing up in her face when her husband finds out!" See...it isn't a criticism, just a comment to help the writer gauge what a first-time reader might be thinking.

As long as you have some solid guidelines, even if they're just a few, it can help folks to know what to expect. And we've already talked about how expectations are very important.

I remember my first trade. I sent a story to someone more experienced and he tore into me. I sent an email apologizing that I sent something apparently not very good, and told him it was my first critique. He assured me it wasn't bad, but that he'd been unaware I was so new. See...expectations. And those things will happen.

Another really serious scenario is jealousy. I'm so fortunate to have a group that sincerely has the best hearts and want to see each other succeed. But jealousy can creep up for a multitude of reasons. One of my friend's first partners only left negative comments because he felt he was there to "teach a lesson." I mean...sometimes people do things out of envy or like it's their duty to rake folks across the coals. Other times, you'll find that one partner just doesn't pull their weight. They might have little or no suggestions for the other writers. It doesn't take long for other members to feel like that one person is getting more than they're giving, and they might take it out on their manuscript by turning nasty. Or maybe someone feels sort of ignored because people have responded to their feedback by saying something unkind like, "I'm not going to change the scene like you suggested, because that's just stupid." Hurt feelings happen and sometimes it just becomes a toxic environment for everyone.

I could go on forever, so I don't want to be a bore. I'm sure I've already crossed that line, and perhaps I should just shut up. HA!

I hope you do find what you're looking for, because I would feel lost without my group. My confidence was shaken last year and I almost quit...after 15 years of writing. I always seemed to "almost" get things right, but never actually wow people. It got really frustrating. That's why it's important for partners to understand your personal goals, rather than inserting their own too strongly. Of course you want someone to tell you the truth, but if that person's truth is too far from your own, it really doesn't help either of you get to where you actually want to be.

Best wishes!

 

[Gribba]

I will not be forming a group, at least not any time soon, as my husband is battling depression and stress at the moment, so I have plenty of other things I have to keep track of and the work required to get a group up and running, would be more than I am up for right now. Joining a group might be easier but then again depends on how new it is, if the ground rules have been established or not and if there is a alpha person in the group or not. I am fine with being the newbie and having to to the work to get to know people. I chose to be ME at all times, I will not change for others or to fit in, But I choose to keep growing as a person and change so that I can live with myself and my choices. I also know, I am bit of an oddball and I OWN it!

Lucky for me I have this thing called Delayed sleep phase disorder (DSPD), so I am up during the night time and I work night shifts. So for the most part it would be possible for me to meet with people online on the other side of the globe. Only if I have something I HAVE to DO in the day time, I take a pill to sleep during the night so I can be awake during the day to go to a meeting or what it might be (and the weekends when I am not working I take my pill to be able to be with my family during the day).

I agree with you when it comes to the personal preference.
I have a friend and she is helping me with translating few of my short stories and flash fiction to danish, and we just had this discussion about the tone and how it is important to translate that, not just the words. It is not my friend that is telling my story, she is helping me bringing my voice forward, in the story I am telling. That is the same with crit, the writers voice is the one telling the story and the authors personal preference is what sets the stage.
I went to a writing course and we were all given the same subject, old woman on her way to her husbands funereal, she killed her husband and tells everyone that at the funereal, but the stories were all so different as we had our own way to tell the same story, different voices and different ways to make the text come to life. That is what makes stories different even if the subject is the same, the writers voice and that has to be respected.
But of course it can be brutal and hart to crit for someone, that writes in a way that makes you want to throw up. I have read so many books, in so many different genres, that I am pretty confident in what kind of writing I can tolerate, I know my limit there.

I have also considered that jealousy could be a issue and think it is great you go into that. Jealousy, unfortunately is often toxic and can hurt and even result in someone quitting, instead of being challenged and inspired. So thanks for going into that as those points are something to consider when receiving crit.

It is wonderful that you guys have shared so much of your experiences regarding this subject as I (and of course others) can use that to lean up against when joining or forming a writing group.
I love all the help and guidelines you all have given, I have much to consider and now I have a long list of thing to keep in mind and expectations to consider and things I think are important. When the day comes, I feel, I might be somewhat prepared and I can honestly say, I was completely unaware of what to expect from a writing group, when I started this thread.

Thanks

 

[Svrtnsse]

Have you thought about doing something on a smaller scale? It doesn't have to be a group. You could just ask someone if they're interested in swapping crits, or giving feedback on a piece you've written.
You don't have to do it all at once, or even now. Take your time about it. Get to know the people here and see who interests you, and who's opinions you value. That way you'll slowly build up a little network which in time could turn into a group.

I don't quite have a writing group I'm in. It's more like a few people I know who are up for reading what I write, and who I'm happy to read for - and then there are some who aren't writers at all.
This may not be the same as a writing group, and it may not be what you're looking for, but it's a step towards getting feedback and connecting with others on a slightly deeper level than just through forum posts.

EDIT: Also, best of luck with the real world stuff. It does sound like you have a lot on your plate.

 

[Gribba]

Yes, I think it is a good idea to start out at a smaller scale, at least for me, right now and I will try to be better at joining in the conversation so I can actually get to know some of you on here.

And thanks and yes, I have plenty on my plate at the moment.


But then I have a question, for a person like me, new and all that... where is the best places to start out on the forum, to join in the conversation?

 

[Svrtnsse]

But then I have a question, for a person like me, new and all that... where is the best places to start out on the forum, to join in the conversation?

Well... you've done pretty well in this thread.

Further. Join in the discussions you find interesting - either by sharing your own opinions and experiences, or by asking questions.
Main point being, don't post just for the sake of posting (not that I think that's an issue - just mentioning as a general piece of advice).

EDIT: Keep in mind that asking questions about something can also be a way of contributing to a discussion. Asking questions is a good way to keep the discussion alive and to invite additional views and comments from others.

 

[Gribba]

arrrghhh... I find so many things interesting and there are so many threads to choose from, it is so hard!!!

I am not the type that starts many posts, I tend to lurk around more and join in conversations that I feel I can add something to (I am working on joining in more). But on the down side of the lurking around skill of mine, is that I often do not join in when I feel I would just be repeating something someone else has already mentioned.

And thanks...
I will try my best.

 

[Heliotrope]

Just agree with people you agree with. This is what I do.

"I agree with Caged Maiden. I think....."

Then what happens is when you agree with certain people over and over again they think "Hey, Gribba and I seem to have a lot in common. We have many of the same beliefs about things. She might make a good writing partner."

 

[Gribba]

I will try to come out of my lurking program and do that.