Self Publishing: Interested?

[Malik]

the times change.

That, they do.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

That would raise the temptation, it hits a lot of the award-winning notes for the current atmosphere in publishing.

I get you. This MS happens to have a disabled POC MC from the same tribe and Reservation as my stepfather, and also as my maternal grandfather. Plus a gay lovestory subplot and a deep-dive into intersectionality issues arising in modern-day SOF toward the end of the war, something nobody--I mean NOBODY--dares mention, even still. I didn't do it intentionally; these are stories I witnessed and need to tell. And it seems to resonate. We'll see.

(ETA: plus elves, dragons, hot sex, Navy SEALs, a government conspiracy, and a duel between a wizard and a self-propelled howitzer. Who's not gonna buy it?)

 

[Malik]

That would raise the temptation, it hits a lot of the award-winning notes for the current atmosphere in publishing.

It really does. This is why my agent--who, again, reps indies--went straight to the big kids with it, and why three of them refuse to say "no," while still not saying "yes." It hits all the notes, but their big concern is that there's nothing else like it out there. (They're wrong; there is one indie series that has sold a gazillion copies on the sole premise of "Army Rangers vs. Orcs." That's it; that's the whole plot. I think it's on the ninth book, now, with thousands of reviews for each one.)

Anyway, somebody, somewhere, needs to grow a pair. I'm starting to think it might as well be me.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Yep! I hate the "love it into uncertainty" mindset of the NYC and LA industries.

It really does. This is why my agent--who, again, reps indies--went straight to the big kids with it, and why three of them refuse to say "no," while still not saying "yes." It hits all the notes, but their big concern is that there's nothing else like it out there. (They're wrong; there is one indie series that has sold a gazillion copies on the sole premise of "Army Rangers vs. Orcs." That's it; that's the whole plot. I think it's on the ninth book, now, with thousands of reviews for each one.)

Anyway, somebody, somewhere, needs to grow a pair. I'm starting to think it might as well be me.

 

[Devor]

Malik, I'm sure you've talked about this elsewhere, but what were your expenses on Dragon's Trail before you published? Do you remember how many sales it took to break even?

 

[pmmg]

What's an SOF?

NVM, Special Operations Force.

 

[Malik]

Malik, I'm sure you've talked about this elsewhere, but what were your expenses on Dragon's Trail before you published? Do you remember how many sales it took to break even?

Back then--this was 2016--I believe it was around six grand.

I was in the black probably 12 months after launch with around 5,000 sales.

 

[pmmg]

Malik, from what you wrote above, you second book is not out yet?

 

[skip.knox]

>No, success is freedom.
I read that as "no success is freedom"
which I take as both true and profound. All forms of success come with so many strings attached it looks like kite day at the beach. I'd say you choose yer poison and takes yer chances, but in this game you don't get to know what you drank until well into the drinking.

 

[Malik]

Malik, from what you wrote above, you second book is not out yet?

Apologies. Editing for clarity.

Series One: Books 1 & 2 are out. Book 3 is under heavy revision, hopefully out next year if I can get the money together. As I mentioned in another thread, Book 2 was heavily pirated and the receipts were disappointing.

Series Two: Book 1 is on subs. Book 2 is almost through the outline phase.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Ah, that's what I was beginning to pick up on, but I wasn't sure if the Sub was book 3 or a new series.

I went insane at one point, started working on a prequel, The Contessa (a stand-beside), and Book 4 at the same time... That was fubar. I had to drop the prequel work and refocus or go insane, heh heh.

Apologies.

Series One: Books 1 & 2 are out. Book 3 is under heavy revision, hopefully out next year.

Series Two: Book 1 is on subs. Book 2 is almost through the outline phase.

 

[Malik]

Ah, that's what I was beginning to pick up on, but I wasn't sure if the Sub was book 3 or a new series.

Just to confuse things more, I may release Book 1 of Series 2 as Book 3 of the whole thing, and add a couple of tie-in references. It would be very easy. Of course, then it would ultimately be a 15-book series spanning 30 years with multiple plot lines, but hey. Epic Fantasy.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Don't even get me started on book pirating. I even had one SOB contact me to say how much he enjoyed Whispers of Ghosts and admitted he pirated it after we got to talking... Hopefully, he actually went and bought it after that.

It's hard as hell to track that shit down, maybe the new AI we'll prove helpful there.

Apologies. Editing for clarity.

Series One: Books 1 & 2 are out. Book 3 is under heavy revision, hopefully out next year if I can get the money together. As I mentioned in another thread, Book 2 was heavily pirated and the receipts were disappointing.

Series Two: Book 1 is on subs. Book 2 is almost through the outline phase.

 

[ThinkerX]

Pirating is something I probably don't have to worry about.

That said, starting in April, I'm going to try the 'book a month' thing for a while - polishing up and publishing a pile of my novella length stories, with a few new ones tossed into the mix. Probably around 100-150 pages per book, with 1-4 stories per book.

 

[Prince of Spires]

The discussion here reminded me about another aspect in the discussion that often gets forgotten. It doesn't need to be an either / or choice. Of course, for any given novel, you can only pick one. But there is nothing stopping you from publishing one novel with a trad publisher and going indie with the next.

Most writers these days, once they get going publish a lot of work. One or two a year is on the low end. Which means that if you're 10 years into the future you can easily have 20 novels out there. No reason to all publish them in the same way. Some works work better indie, while others do better traditionally published.

2 things to be aware of: If you get an agent, make sure they only get paid for work they do. Some agents have contracts that grant them a % of everything you publish. Everything includes indie works that have taken them no work at all. Don't do that (unless you like giving money away of course...).

And secondly, it's common for publishers to include rights of first refusal in contracts. Make sure you limit those as well, both in time and in to which works they get the right to first refusal. You don't want a situation where they can consider a work for a few years before saying no. And only grant this right to works in the same series. Otherwise you'll be tying yourself to a single publisher who can do whatever they want with your works.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

There is much sneakiness in tying up people's work. There is one clause that (from what I understand) gets snuck in along the first-refusal lines which would technically be able to be fought and overturned, but of course, few authors have the depth of pocket for lawyers that the publishers do, heh heh. I don't think they use it, but it's like a cudgel sitting there.

Another form of hybrid is to use the publishers for print and to keep the audio rights. It seems I heard that Rowling has her own audio rights. That's a boom baby! when you can keep those as a successful writer. It's morning, my brain is blank, but one hybrid author was threatening not to sign with a pub because he wanted the audio rights. That fight makes sense on both ends.

For one miracle month, I made $1000+ on audio, and I'm puny. What a Sanderson or King could pull in with their audio rights would be insane.

The discussion here reminded me about another aspect in the discussion that often gets forgotten. It doesn't need to be an either / or choice. Of course, for any given novel, you can only pick one. But there is nothing stopping you from publishing one novel with a trad publisher and going indie with the next.

Most writers these days, once they get going publish a lot of work. One or two a year is on the low end. Which means that if you're 10 years into the future you can easily have 20 novels out there. No reason to all publish them in the same way. Some works work better indie, while others do better traditionally published.

2 things to be aware of: If you get an agent, make sure they only get paid for work they do. Some agents have contracts that grant them a % of everything you publish. Everything includes indie works that have taken them no work at all. Don't do that (unless you like giving money away of course...).

And secondly, it's common for publishers to include rights of first refusal in contracts. Make sure you limit those as well, both in time and in to which works they get the right to first refusal. You don't want a situation where they can consider a work for a few years before saying no. And only grant this right to works in the same series. Otherwise you'll be tying yourself to a single publisher who can do whatever they want with your works.

 

[pmmg]

Generally speaking, the more onerous or unreasonable a clause is, the more likely it can be fought, but best not to be in that position in the first place.

 

[Prince of Spires]

Another form of hybrid is to use the publishers for print and to keep the audio rights. It seems I heard that Rowling has her own audio rights. That's a boom

She did, the same with electronic rights by the way. When she originally published (in the 90's) neither ebooks nor audiobooks were a thing, so she was able to retain those rights. As a result, there have been some years where Rowling was actually selling enough ebooks to be noticable as a category in ebook genres and publishers.

Another result of that was of course that publishers tend to take hold of those rights now. I can imagine it's very hard these days (as a beginning author) to only sell your print rights. Most of them would take print, ebook and audio. And given the power imbalance, these tend to be take it or leave it kind of negotiations.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

No doubt about that!

It was Michael Sullivan who I saw discussing his fight to keep audio rights from his publisher after selling them the first time around, amongst other topics.

She did, the same with electronic rights by the way. When she originally published (in the 90's) neither ebooks nor audiobooks were a thing, so she was able to retain those rights. As a result, there have been some years where Rowling was actually selling enough ebooks to be noticable as a category in ebook genres and publishers.

Another result of that was of course that publishers tend to take hold of those rights now. I can imagine it's very hard these days (as a beginning author) to only sell your print rights. Most of them would take print, ebook and audio. And given the power imbalance, these tend to be take it or leave it kind of negotiations.

 

[ravichandran]

Hey everyone,

I'm currently knee-deep in the second draft of my first book and I'm already thinking ahead to publishing. After doing some research, I'm starting to lean towards self-publishing rather than approaching a traditional publisher.

Why settle for a small piece of the profits that I worked hard to earn? And why would I want to give up control of a marketing budget? I'd much rather create my own publishing firm, one that's focused on fairness and transparency, and shares profits more equally with other authors.

To help with my decision-making process, I thought I would float this to the community which I know and love! I'd love to hear about your experiences with traditional publishing and self-publishing. Have you worked with a traditional publisher before? What was it like? Or have you self-published your work? What challenges did you face and what did you enjoy about the process?

Thanks in advance for your input. I appreciate it!

There are publishing companies that design print the stuff and market it for you for fixed fees. They can be an option