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Star Wars: Episode IX - Spoilers Welcome, Beware

Discussion in 'Film & Television' started by A. E. Lowan, Jan 2, 2020.

  1. A. E. Lowan

    A. E. Lowan Forum Mom Leadership

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    I finally saw Star Wars last night and I have so many feelings!
     
  2. Devor

    Devor Fiery Keeper of the Hat Moderator

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    Yay feelings....?

    The McGuffins were a little odd, and it desperately missed Carrie Fisher, but for the most part I thought it was a pretty satisfying conclusion to the new trilogy.
     
  3. A. E. Lowan

    A. E. Lowan Forum Mom Leadership

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    I agree. I think that, while it wasn't perfect, it was indeed very satisfying.
     
  4. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Moderator

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    I thought the resolution to the story was satisfying, but that it felt a bit rushed. I think they were hopping from scene to scene trying to fit so much into the film. It would have benefited from a longer run time so that scenes could flow together better.
     
  5. pmmg

    pmmg Auror

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    Well I don't agree. I regret seeing it. But I am walking away from Star Wars. It has been a life long trek for me but there is nothing there for me anymore.
     
    Reaver likes this.
  6. Devor

    Devor Fiery Keeper of the Hat Moderator

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    Yeah, I kind of get it. If I wanted to pick it apart there's no shortage of targets. I'll pick one though.

    Palpatine told Rey that if she struck him down, the spirit and power of all of the sith would flow out of him and into her. It kind of dampened the head games Palpatine played with Luke in the original series. It's not Luke's choices that would turn him evil, it's the sith magic that a hate killing would ritually unlock.

    It's been a trend with the prequels and with the latest movies to solve mysteries and unravel supposed plotholes that were fine the way they were. Why do they have to keep reinterpreting the originals?
     
    Yora likes this.
  7. Alex Reiden

    Alex Reiden Minstrel

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    I heard they wanted to split it into two movies, but we're under pressure to keep it a trilogy of trilogies.
     
    Steerpike likes this.
  8. Yora

    Yora Maester

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    I tried walking away after Rogue One, but my family bought tickets for Last Jedi without asking me. I managed to get out of seeing the others in time.
    I'm very happy with my pre-1999 Star Wars as it is. That stuff is fantastic and timeless.
     
  9. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Moderator

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    Definitely enough material there for two.
     
  10. Devor

    Devor Fiery Keeper of the Hat Moderator

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    I don't think it should've been two movies. I think the previous movies should've laid more groundwork. Palpatine comes back for one movie? But he was speaking through Snoke, because Snoke was a clone - that should've been explored in the second movie, maybe Kylo Ren could've sensed it through the force when Snoke died. There's a fleet of ships? That should've been hinted at too, "some of the shipyards in the whatever quadrant...." There's a secret planet? Couldn't Rey have asked about the secret planet she found in the book to Luke in the second movie?

    For me, my issue isn't with any of these specific movies, but the way that they were done. Infinity War and Endgame had the same team of writers, the same directors, they were both written and mostly filmed together. The same process happened for the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy - all three epics were mostly filmed together before the first one aired.

    This Star Wars trilogy deserved that same treatment. I think everything would've been so much stronger that way.
     
    A. E. Lowan and Black Dragon like this.
  11. This video explains my feelings on this:



    This movie had potential, but either TLJ shouldn't have been what it was, or they shouldn't have run away screaming from TLJ.

    But I don't blame the movie makers for this one. I blame Star Wars fans. They are...the worst.
     
    Vaporo and Reaver like this.
  12. Reaver

    Reaver Kwisatz Haderach Moderator

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    This movie should've been entitled "The Rise of Palpatine" because Rey is, after all, the Emperor's granddaughter. She gives herself the name Skywalker at the end of the movie. I don't know about anyone else, but to me, this movie was a train wreck full of confusing plot holes and no tension. Does Rey have all the power of the Sith and the Jedi now? Where did Palpatine get all those people to man those Star Destroyers from? How did he manage to hide them under the ice for thirty years without anyone knowing about it and without them malfunctioning?

    How did such a huge portion of the second Death Star remain intact with fully functioning doors when in RotJ it was totally disintegrated? If something that large did impact on the surface of Endor (which is a small moon by the way) wouldn't it decimate a huge portion of life on said moon? For example, the famed Chicxulub asteroid that struck the earth in Mexico and led to the mass extinction of dinosaurs was estimated to be 11 to 81 kilometers (6.8 to 50.3 miles) in diameter.

    Different sources have the diameter of the second Death Star between 160 and 900 kilometers so even a small portion like the section Rey was climbing around in would be absolutely devastating to the surface of Endor.

    I won't even get into how the Emperor survived getting tossed down the reactor core. That's just lazy writing. "Something something something I planned it all along. Something something something Disney needs a villain for this movie."

    I'll stick with episodes four, five and six thank you very much. The rest are just a nightmarish fever dream that never really happened.
     
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  13. ThinkerX

    ThinkerX Myth Weaver

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    I finally went and watched this show today. First trip to the theater in months.

    First, I did enjoy the movie. The characterization was good, as were the special effects and the discussions of the more mystical aspects of the Force.

    I liked the bits about the dead Jedi Hunter (though it's a bit surprising scavengers didn't make off with his ship), the former storm troopers on Endor, and the alien festival. Finn developing a bit of the Force was also good.

    The Death Star wreckage was a bit more problematic, but that craft was immense, and the fragment, while large in it's own right was tiny compared to the whole and badly damaged to boot.

    Likewise, so was the whole quest for the Sith Navigation thingy. A bit of thought on anybodies part should have revealed the devices location: Palpatine was the top Sith, with the resources of the Empire at his disposal; therefore he would have kept such a relic close at hand. Luke should have found it decades prior to the story.

    I can accept - barely - that the First Order was never anything more than a front for the Final Order, and that many of the children kidnapped by the former ended up in the ranks of the later. However, getting those draftees to the Sith world and keeping them supplied would have been a major enterprise in its own right, one that would have left tracks - meaning there must have been quite a few people in possession of the route to that planet. Kylo Ren not knowing about the Final Order all along is a major issue. Makes me wonder if the imperial spy was on Palpatine's payroll.

    Other major issues include the massive Rebel fleet appearing from nowhere and the planet killing weapons on the star destroyers. If the Emperor had such, why allow his puppet front - the First Order - to build Starkiller base?
     
  14. Late to the thread, but hey.
    I enjoyed it; plot-wise there were a few things I wasn't keen on, and I think the whole trilogy could have been tighter written with a bit more pre-planning, but I do consider it one of the better films.
    I liked how they handled a lot of the characters, for example giving Lando a great reappearance, finally giving C3PO a role in the plot again, and the new characters gave a fresh perspective from communities on the outskirts of the war. I was also grateful to have Leia (specifically Carrie Fisher) in it, as it would not have been the same to finish without her.
    I had a few small complaints. Rise of Skywalker and The Last Jedi pulled quite a few dead/not-really-dead stunts with the protagonists which I find a little tiring after a while. I was also disappointed that they didn't bring back DJ from the last film (one of the most convincing villains), and Wedge's return was blink and you'll miss it. But personally I thought they did a lot of things right.
     
  15. Asael Verity

    Asael Verity Dreamer

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    I agree with Aiden, the "Oh their dead... Nevermind their not" got considerably annoying because they did it with so many characters. (C3PO, Rey, Kylo Ren, Palpatine, etc.) That and the "Strike me down and become a Sith" to me just sounded like a last-minute throw-in for more conflict and intensity. I was definitely disappointed but it could have been worse.
     
  16. Vaporo

    Vaporo Inkling

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    Well, I haven't had a chance to express my thoughts on these movies elsewhere, so I guess I'll do it here.

    Speaking as one of the few people who actually likes The Last Jedi, I thought Rise of the Skywalker was a poorly executed directionless mess.

    With movies movies I've found that I'm willing to wade through a sewer's worth of bad story in order to find something good. I was raised on bargain bin knockoff movies, so I've trained myself to tune out the bad so long as I also get something good from time to time. In The Last Jedi, there were things that I enjoyed. The Holdo Maneuver was, backstory issues aside, visually stunning. I liked how Luke and Rey interacted on the island together. As far as I'm concerned the "fight" between Kylo Ren and Luke at the end was one of the most epic scenes in all of Star Wars. There was good to be had, in spite of the problems. The Force Awakens didn't have a lot of high scenes, but it also lacked low points as well, so it gets a "meh" from me.

    The Last Skywalker, though... It certainly had its low points, but it also lacks highs as well. Too many plot holes, too many unsatisfactorily resolved character arcs. Every time there was a scene that I thought looked good, it was ultimately ruined by the lackluster plot underlying it.

    C3PO losing his memory was a non-plot point. What starts out as as a serious character moment is rapidly undercut by a number of ill-conceived attempts at jokes. And even then, it ultimately doesn't matter since R2D2 fixes him at the end in about 3 seconds anyways.

    There was one point when Finn thought he was going to die and shouts out that he needs to tell Rey something, but later says it wasn't important. Yeah, that was never resolved.

    A lot of people seem to take issue with the new force powers introduced in this movie since nothing like it was seen in the others. I don't really think this argument holds water. It's always kind of been implied in the movies that the Force can do a lot more that than what the Jedi or Sith are usually shown doing. The force is also implied to be connected to the nature of life itself, so the idea of transferring life force doesn't seem too far-fetched to me. I do think that the new powers are poorly presented, though. Force healing came totally out of nowhere with no lead-in. If Rey learned the skill from the Jedi books, why did the Jedi forget it? It seems too useful.

    There was one thing I liked with implications about the backstory of the Sith, though. If Palpatine could reincarnate in another person's body by allowing them to strike him down in hatred, and Palpatine is the leader of the Sith, is this literally all that the Sith are? This one power-hungry spirit body-hopping across the millennia, spreading his message of giving into hate so that he had plenty of host bodies to choose from? It's such a clever idea that casts the scene between Luke and the Palpatine in Return of the Jedi in a new light that I'm thoroughly convinced the writers did it by accident.

    In fact, there's an idea that could have made the movie better. Combine the Force Healing and the idea of Palpatine's body hopping: Rey reads the books from the Jedi temple save one, since it begins with a warning that goes something to the extent of "Reader beware. This book contains skills that can lead one down the path of the Dark Side." Rey is already established to be terrified of turning to the Dark Side, so she avoids reading it. However, the rebellion is desperate, and she eventually decides that they need every edge they can get. So she reads it and discovers Force Healing. At first she is confused since the power seems utterly benevolent. She remains confused until she sees Palpatine and his legions of deformed constructs, revealing exactly why knowledge of life force manipulation was forgotten.

    There. I've written a better plot than the movie actually had.

    If I had to rank the sequel movies from best to worst, I'd do it as follows:

    The Last Jedi: 7/10 (If you don't like it, go get your own opinion.)
    The Force Awakens: 5/10 (It's a movie that exists)
    The Rise of the Skywalker: 4/10 (If you gave a monkey a can of spray sealant and let him shoot it around the room at random he'd plug more plot holes than the writers did.)

    While I enjoyed Last Jedi the most, I can also see that it's where the cracks really started to form. I don't think it was unrecoverable. If the studio had seen the writing on the walls and given the last movie to a talented, passionate director and then not meddled with their decisions, I think that it could have been saved. But alas, it was not to be.
     
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