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GoT Season 4 [NO SPOILERS, PLEASE]

Gryphos

Auror
I think that the rape makes Jaime a much more complicated character and I actually rather like it. At the beginning of the series you hate jaime for being the piece of shit that pushed a child from a tower. Then, as the series goes on, you begin to like him as he starts to redeem himself. You understand his motives and can even begin to forgive him. Now he goes ahead and rapes his sister and suddenly he's not the misunderstood antihero he was before. Now the viewers are forced into a tricky situation where they're not sure whether they can actually say they "like" Jaime. This isn't a bad thing. It makes him much more interesting than he would have been had he been simply a misunderstood good guy.
 

Nihal

Vala
This is not the first problematic sex scene they changed to rape in the TV series. I'm under the impression that when the directors, writers or whoever is responsible for these changes are faced with disturbing sex scenes the only way they know to deal with them is turning it into assault. That's poor writing.

I'm not as thrilled with the series anymore, for they effectively impoverished what would be a conflicting situation otherwise. Downright wrong for many, yes, but it's not the point of the change for it's still wrong now, in fact it became worse.

They took agency from Cersei; the way she acted in the books said a lot of her character. They changed the dynamic of their relationship. How can she trust Jaime–the same Jaime who saved Brienne from similar fate, the same Jaime who wanted to murder Robert for his drunk advances on Cersei–, how can she trust now he's done the same thing? I mean, who is Jaime now they changed his core?

But for me the worst of it all is that they don't acknowledge that what they created was an assault scene.

This kind of change does no good for the series, it doesn't help the character development for it's used as a mere narrative device with no further ramifications. It's like if the aggressors name called the mothers of the victims and that's it, it was just a slight. When Dany was sold it impacted her so deeply she's freeing slaves now! But that level of violence and degradation? Nah.
 

Legendary Sidekick

The HAM'ster
Moderator
The scene didn't bother me as much, but for the wrong reasons. When my wife asked what's going on, I said, I don't know. I don't remember that in the book.

In other words, this is like the Red Wedding where a pregnant woman was stabbed to death in the womb and Caitlyn killed a fifteen-year-old girl. In the book, Robb's wife was not pregnant and not at the wedding, and Caitlyn killed a fool (who was still a sympathetic character).

I also could do without the Red Viper being bisexual. He has his paramour. I don't know why she's with other women and he's with a guy.

Basically, if the writers would just follow the book, the show would be better off. Almost every time they make a change, it cheapens the show for me. It hasn't killed the show for me, but I'd like to watch the episodes without telling my wife that the show did it wrong… again.

And those are good points, Nihal. That Jaime is so much against rape makes this scene look like what it is: shock value—which was really not needed in a scene where a brother and sister were having consensual sex in a sept while their dead son was still warm. (I don't recall them being close to the body, but that could be my bad memory or misinterpretation.)
 

Gryphos

Auror
but I'd like to watch the episodes without telling my wife that the show did it wrong… again.

The show didn't really do it wrong, though, did it? It did it differently.

Now I haven't read any of ASoIaF, but from what I've heard the show has changed from the book, I really don't care and often think they made the right move. Making Robb's wife pregnant? that just adds a little more emotion to her death. Not exactly necessary but not a bad change at all. Her being at the wedding? Wouldn't not having her there kinda lessen the impact of the wedding. Oberyn being bisexual? Why not? It fits with him being the promiscuous guy he is. Jaime's raping Cersei? I don't know. As I said, it certainly makes Jaime a bit difficult to understand, but perhaps it will lead to interesting situations later. If it doesn't have any ramifications later and isn't even touched upon, then I will agree it was rather silly.

The creators of the show do not have any obligation to follow the books to the letter. In the opening credits it says "based on the series by George R R Martin". 'Based on' is key. If the show writers want to tweak the story to make it better for the screen, then they go ahead and do it.
 
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Legendary Sidekick

The HAM'ster
Moderator
There are some differences that don't bother me, like Arya killing Polliver with Needle in the same manner as when he killed the boy with the same sword. That was a change I thought of as "different" and "better for the screen." Changing the order of events (Jaime and Brienne did not attend Joff's wedding) is forgivable, as the actors you hired need to have something to do. The scenes changed to deliver additional shock value bother me.

My problem is that the book has plenty of shock and awe as it is. When I saw the Red Wedding, I hadn't started on the books, so I thought, wow… that's harsh. Seeing a pregnant women stabbed in the womb was upsetting, but it didn't bother me until I found that it was different in the book. Then I thought, well that's stupid. Robb's death is what makes that scene so shocking.

Trust me… the wedding was plenty tragic in the book. One memorable death of a minor character: Dacey Mormont was a woman warrior who wanted to dance with one of the men in on the attack plan, she was refused the dance moments before her brutal murder.

Legally, the writers of the show can do this. It's a common practice. (Jurassic Park is probably the worst offender, going so far as to change the life/death fates of major characters.) It's also an annoying practice. No one wants to read a story then see a story and end up with two different stories. Yes, it's fiction, but when the characters are believable enough, changing their behaviors and fates breaks immersion. Instead of saying, "Wow! Those Lannister twins have this love-hate thing…" I was shrugging it off like, "WTF? That didn't happen."
 
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Gryphos

Auror
The way I see it, what's the point of adapting a story if you don't, well... adapt it? If a person wants a story just like the book, there's always the book to read.
 
It's worth noting that the director said it stopped being rape because Cersei wanted it in the end. (He called it rape in a separate interview, but that wasn't the one that exploded all over the blogosphere.)

(As a general rule, if you have to tell people it wasn't rape, it was rape. See also: Devin Grayson. Just Devin freaking Grayson.)
 

teacup

Auror
The show didn't really do it wrong, though, did it? It did it differently.
I agree with this completely. Whether you like it or not doesn't make a show differing from the source material wrong, it makes it different.

Though I found the rape thing strange (and even if Cersei decided she wanted it in the end, Jaime is still forcing himself on her while she says no) because it seemed out of character for Jaime. Yes, he pushed Bran out the window and stuff, but rape just didn't seem in his character, especially after saving Brienne from it. It does make him harder to understand, yes, but it just doesn't seem like him. I think that if they wanted to make him harder to understand/side with, they should have gone with another way of doing it.
Also it certainly didn't need more shock value, as others have said.
 

Legendary Sidekick

The HAM'ster
Moderator
My opinion or it being different doesn't make it wrong. You pointed out the part that makes it wrong:
rape just didn't seem in his character, especially after saving Brienne from it.

The problem with deviating from the source material is that the writers of the show apparently don't know Martin's characters as well as the average reader, or they lose sight of what's in-character because they're too caught up in making a scene more shocking. I'd like to think the intent is to give fans of the book some surprises, but I can't imagine there are any fans who want surprises like Robb's an idiot, Jaime's a rapist, or…
…Brienne's an experienced killer.
 
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monyo

Scribe
I had thought that the Jaime-Cersei rape thing was to send Jaime back to being more of a bad guy. He'd become almost likeable after season 3. Similar to that brief moment when you thought Joffrey was about to learn humility shortly before his death, then seconds later... nope. Plus showing that it didn't take long after getting back to safety and his family that he reverted back to old Jaime in a lot of ways. Also to make Cersei more sympathetic, if that's even possible. Son dies in her arms effectively because of how she raised him, then basically gets raped on his corpse moments later - it kind of fits with her resentment of being a woman and being trapped in a loveless, abusive marriage that an ambitious, controlling father forced her into. I thought it was just to continue muddying the moral waters, making the characters both understandable and villainous at the same time.

Saving Brienne from rape could have been taken as his chance to worm his way up to his captors, as he seemed to be trying to do at the time, not necessarily because he cared one way or the other. And they did go out of their way to make it clear that Cersei had been withholding sex from him since he got back, unlike in the books where they get down to it as soon as he returns. Overall I couldn't complain about those changes.
 

SeverinR

Vala
Watched a few scenes from various episodes on youtube.

Arya and the Hound are such a great love/hate couple. I love the whole "Ayra's death list" ineraction and the sword dancing interaction.
Even as they are forced to stay together, Arya is never long to remind the Hound she wants to kill him.

I liked the lesson punctuated with Arya getting slapped to the ground, that shows Arya she must know the limits of her weapon, needle. Needle would probably penetrate ringmaille or chain maille, but not scale or coat of plates. In a real fight she would be dead.

I also liked when Arya tells the farmer that the Hound is her dad. Same episode the hound explains why taking things is not stealing, dead people don't need silver(or a wagon), not stealing when the person won't need it much longer. Seriously twisted thinking to make stealing ok...that someone will be dead someday, means its ok to take it today.
 

Legendary Sidekick

The HAM'ster
Moderator
Disney bought the rights, so expect less nudity next season, and more focus on the heart-warming scenes.

disney_got_bram_and_hordor_by_nandomendonssa-d7imhi6.jpg


For real, check out this artist's DA page. There are three more GOT Disney-style pics!
 

SeverinR

Vala
Hodor!
Game of Thrones-disney-fied:
Disney?
Everythings better with a little grape juice in the belly?
I want to die with grape juice in my belly and a puppy on my lap?

Tyrion can't be Tyrion with Disney.

Arya?
"Most girls...aren't nice"
the list she says before sleeping; is the Santa's naughty list?

Varys was sick when he was little and looks alittle different then others.
[[speaking of Varys, I swear I saw a person that looked like him at a sports club on friday. I wanted so much to ask him if he knew where "Little Finger" was.]]]

Little finger owns several laundry services, but the women can't afford much clothing of their own and its hot doing laundry.

Red wedding: alot of people in the weddings got owies when the mean old man betrayed them.

purple wedding; the bad boy king choked on his grape juice and someone might have poked him when he was drinking.

The regent queen kissed her brother and doesn't want others to know.

Disney would change Game of Thrones drastically.
 

SeverinR

Vala
Game of thrones card deck:

Favorite characters are Aces: Tyrion, Arya, also Gendry and Olena are aces. Dany is a wildcard.
Kings: Joffrey, Robb, Stanis, Renly
Queens: Cersi, Sansa, Margaery, Malisandre,
Jacks: John, Jaime(one hand jack), Devos, Loras,
 

ThinkerX

Myth Weaver
Game of Thrones-disney-fied:
Disney?
Everythings better with a little grape juice in the belly?
I want to die with grape juice in my belly and a puppy on my lap?

Tyrion can't be Tyrion with Disney.

Arya?
"Most girls...aren't nice"
the list she says before sleeping; is the Santa's naughty list?

Varys was sick when he was little and looks alittle different then others.
[[speaking of Varys, I swear I saw a person that looked like him at a sports club on friday. I wanted so much to ask him if he knew where "Little Finger" was.]]]

Little finger owns several laundry services, but the women can't afford much clothing of their own and its hot doing laundry.

Red wedding: alot of people in the weddings got owies when the mean old man betrayed them.

purple wedding; the bad boy king choked on his grape juice and someone might have poked him when he was drinking.

The regent queen kissed her brother and doesn't want others to know.

Disney would change Game of Thrones drastically.

Haven't watched Disney animations in ages...but from what I recollect, Disney characters do die occasionally, and there are the odd scenes that hint at lewdness in a comic sort of way. So...if done right, the core of the tale could be conveyed.

The language could be cleaned up without loosing too much.

The toughies would be the relationship between Jamie and Cersie, and the red wedding.

I seem to remember a couple of animated drunks in Disney animations, so Tyrion could work, minus the naked chicks.

Jon is pretty straightforward.

No need to go into much detail with Varys and Littlefinger.
 

ThinkerX

Myth Weaver
Varys is sneaky. His castration is not something that needs to be advertised - merely his intellect and deviousness.

And the naked ladies could probably be dropped from Littlefingers role, or played way down with lewd hints.
 

Legendary Sidekick

The HAM'ster
Moderator
I think Littlefinger's whores would do a dance number (fully clothed).

You think I'm kidding, but see the Make Way For Prince Ali song in Aladdin. There were whores! Parents tell children they're belly dancers, but… it's bullish*t. Because they're whores.

i-absolutely-love-the-way-he-dresses.jpg


EDIT - I added photographic evidence. And look at the Genie's torso in the background. I'd say Robin Williams is more convincing as a woman here than he was in Tootsie.
 
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