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GoT S7 Spoilerfest!

Discussion in 'Film & Television' started by Legendary Sidekick, Aug 7, 2017.

  1. Rkcapps

    Rkcapps Sage

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    The "teleportation" thing is jarring but I see why it's done so I'll accept it.

    I loved the hint and sudden distraction about Jon's true parentage. What a great technique! And Jon's ability to pat the dragon is another hint, I sense. I feel like a bomb's going to drop about Jon's true identity soon. Can't wait!

    I missed that continuity error, I'll have to watch again. Now that's not a wasted hour!
     
  2. FifthView

    FifthView Istar

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    I understand the teleportation thing, so I'm just rolling with it.

    The continuity error might not be a continuity error. In episode 4, the bit where Jaime is fighting the Dothraki may have been filmed with them (and Dickon) standing on the ground but was meant to be seen as if they are still on their horses. The movement of their bodies and the fighters in the background give it away for me.

    Let's talk about the elephant in the room in episode 5.

    Jon and company only need proof, an example, of the undead. Simplest solution would be to kill any living enemy, or a condemned criminal, and wait for that enemy to "turn." This would be FAR easier than trying to hunt down one of the undead in the Night King's army. They could probably even stay in Eastwatch, or just outside the Wall, to accomplish this. But it wouldn't be as dramatic, and we wouldn't have the anticipation of seeing Westeros' A-Team going out to fight the Night King's forces.

    That said, I'd not be entirely surprised if this turns out to be what happens. During the fighting, one of their own is killed, and that's the only body they are able to take back with them. Jorah as undead? Gendry? Davos? Heh.
     
  3. Rkcapps

    Rkcapps Sage

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    Fifthview - You're too right, they could do that but we'd miss the confrontation! Where would we be without the conflict?
     
  4. Ban

    Ban Sir Laserface Article Team

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    .......................................................

    I think Jon is trying to find one of the white walkers to bring to Cersei. Those guys can only be found up north. A regular zombie fellow probably would not convince Cersei, because those all look like half-decayed humans. I also don't think people stay undead unless they are relatively close to one of the white walkers, so a regular undead mook would have become a normal corpse again by the time Jon and the gang (his awesome gang) are at King's Landing.
     
  5. Rkcapps

    Rkcapps Sage

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    I've seen ep 6, anyone else? I don't want to say anything until you guys have seen it ...
     
  6. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    Technically, only 5 episodes have been released. Please hold out until Sunday the 20th @ 9pm EST. That's when the episode first airs on HBO.

    Thanks!
     
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  7. Demesnedenoir

    Demesnedenoir Istar

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    Yeah, unless you include Ser Gregor as undead... Cersei has her own evidence, heh heh, I don't think it's easy to simply kill someone and have them go all Sinatra (ol' blue eyes) on you. I don't think the magic mechanism is all that defined, but seems the Others have more than a bit to do with that.

    And there's plenty of specimens to choose from! They come in all shapes and sizes. And heck, if the wall breaks you just bring back a Stark... how fun would that be?

    Benjen Stark vs the Mountain, a to the death (again) cage match. That's a fight I'd pay to see, LOL.
     
  8. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    Okay... safe to talk about ep.6 now.

    I'll start.





    Holy shit!
     
  9. Rkcapps

    Rkcapps Sage

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    Where did a dead army find ship like chains in a winter wasteland? Like the drive behind that scene though. Loved the way Jon's party interacted - plots merging! Saw the turning of a dragon coming. Need to have another level of difficulty for Jon and Dani's army.

    And I know Dani likes Jon and all but shouldn't she be a little bit miffed he cost her a dragon?

    I'm going to go out on a limb - Littlefinger is going to turn Winterfell against Sansa and Arya will save her. Well, I'd like to see that happen!
     
  10. FifthView

    FifthView Istar

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    ..........................Spoiler Spacing..............................
    ..........................Spoiler Spacing..............................

    I watched some reaction vids on YouTube, and I was surprised that a few had the same thought, blaming the writers for sloppy writing and/or blaming Jon.

    I just don't get it.

    Jon didn't cost her the dragon. She did herself, opposing Tyrion.

    Or the Night King did.

    It's war. Bleep happens.

    So I don't get why she or we should blame Jon just a little or a lot.


    For me, the Winterfell events are indeterminate. Or is that indeterminable?

    I'm guessing that, judging by the way the producers like to play with things, Arya's going to win–with the help of Bran. Bran has been suspiciously off screen, and going with an Arya loss seems far too on the nose, too overt a "foreshadowing" to really be foreshadowing of an Arya loss. Keeping Bran off screen shows the producers' hand, I think.

    BUT. We still haven't resolved the Nymeria thing, so I wonder if Arya might be forced to leave Winterfell, perhaps chased, and her wolf and its pack intercede on her behalf. I doubt this; but, who knows?

    All it takes is for Bran to casually mention, during a charged assembly, that Littlefinger shoved Lysa Arryn out the Moon Door–and that Sansa was there. Poor little Robin snaps, the lords of the Vale snap, and that's it for Sansa's ambitions and Littlefinger's life. Littlefinger might escape momentarily until Arya runs him through.

    Here's my long shot prediction, and it's funky, probably too ridiculous to be mentioned...but something I might do were I in charge of the show. Sansa becomes the Night Queen. Yep. I think that the foreshadowing of Sansa's long-held, long-cherished desire to be a queen next to a king, mentioned in this episode and pretty much her singular desire in the earlier seasons, could act as foreshadowing if the producers wanted to go there. Night King breaks through the wall w/ the dragon, and somehow Sansa falls victim to him.

    Maybe she is chased out by Arya/Bran/Vale/Whatever, and that's how she ends up in the Night King's path. Or maybe she chases Arya and Bran out, and the Night King attacks Winterfell.

    For me, this would bring Sansa's perpetual foolishness to an end. She's more focused on Cersei, seems to have little problem contemplating betraying Jon and taking Winterfell for herself–all justified through rationalization, and all this could leave her utterly surprised by the appearance of the Night King. Heck, he could just ride in on his dragon and take her then.

    (There's a niggling curiosity about the possibility of Cersei becoming the Night Queen, instead, further down the road. That would be just like the writers to have her prophesied death come to pass but then to have her raised by the Night King as his bride. Heh. Too many possibilities, and thus too many wild speculations. Stay tuned.)
     
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  11. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    I have one thought on the Sansa-Brienne interaction: Sansa's playing Little Finger. She sought him with the truth to see his reaction, which is that Brienne is honor-bound to intercede. Next scene, she sends Brienne away, trusting that Jaime Lannister would see Brienne safe.

    The interesting part is I believe Sansa trusts Jaime Lannister with Brienne's life more than she trusts her own sister. I don't believe Arya's the better fighter, but that Arya vs. Brienne is a dead Brienne since Brienne would attempt to subdue and Arya's already proven to be quick to go for the throat. But then, Arya's handed her sister the knife after the creepy speech, so who knows?



    I liked that you could see the dragon death coming. You had time to contemplate those spears. I realized it before the dragons were there, then thought "uh-oh."

    Then I got too caught up in the beauty of dragons blowing up zombies to feel scared... and, oh, right, those spears. They're throwable. Splat!

    Watching the dragon die was like watching a bird flop along the highway in my rear view mirror. It's a dramatic fall that takes so long all you can do is feel awful and say, "I saw your death coming, but there was nothing I could do. Sorry."
     
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  12. T.Allen.Smith

    T.Allen.Smith Staff Moderator

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    There's a theory regarding the Night King's origin story (one I think highly likely at this point) that would argue against this.

    I don't know how "spoilery" we really want to get in this spoiler fest though. For those that don't care about a possible early reveal of the biggest OMG moment in the series, you can find it online with minimal direction that I'm happy to provide through PM.

    If this truly is an all-out spoilerfest, I can elaborate.
     
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  13. FifthView

    FifthView Istar

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    ...........................spoiler heading............................
    ...........................spoiler heading............................

    I've read that theory and I hope it's not true. I'm hoping that
    said character
    turns out to be
    The Lord of Light instead,
    after
    trying to warg into a dragon's head.

    ...or something along those lines.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
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  14. T.Allen.Smith

    T.Allen.Smith Staff Moderator

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    The theory could be wrong, but there are some recent YouTube breakdowns, with scenes & symbols, that make for a compelling case.
     
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  15. Demesnedenoir

    Demesnedenoir Istar

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    Blaming Jon... well, he goes into a manly fit of killing the dead thinking he's invincible with dragons at his back instead of just jumping onboard and getting the hell out like a smart guy. Blaming him would be harsh, blame the writers, after all. It was painfully obvious that a dragon was going to buy it way too early, which is on the writers/directors/editors, whomever.

    Giant chains from nowhere... doesn't everybody pack a set in the trunk of their wagon... wagons... how many wagons they need to haul those damned things anyhow?

    My one problem right now is that there is a whole lot of dumb going on in order force everything the writers want done. We need a dragon hurt to show it can be done, insert weak dragon tactics here, we need a reason to get a dragon north, now we need the dragon tactics to be weak again so one dies to be the cool blue-eyed dragon... Just a few examples. Part of this can be blamed on the crappy decision to shorten the seasons in episode count, and of course, part can be put square on GRRM's shoulders for not getting his damned books done in time, LOL. The hand of god... I mean the writers... is becoming more and more obvious.
     
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  16. T.Allen.Smith

    T.Allen.Smith Staff Moderator

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    We don't really know how much time elapsed from when the dragon was killed to when they got the chains and pulled it from the lake, do we? Could've been weeks.

    My biggest issue was BenJen Stark showing up out of nowhere. How long has it been since he's been a player? And all of a sudden, he's there swinging fire and sending Jon to safety.
     
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  17. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    I was harshly critical of the show in season 5 due to deviations and villains having video-game-endboss powers.

    I think part of the reason I'm enjoying this season is that I'm just taking the ride and not worrying about realism, consistency of character, etc. Basically, this was me last night:


    ME: "Wheeeeeeeee! Fire and water and dead zombies are pretty!"

    MY BRAIN: "Didn't any of the remaining good guys notice the wights with really long ice-spears that resemble scorpion-spears? I mean, YOU did, and you're not a war expert like those guys on TV."

    ME: "No, but I play one in RPGs."

    MY BRAIN: "Yeah, whatever. My point is somebody should say something like, hey, Dany. I think those ice-spears are like scorpion-spears, only more likely to actually work."

    ME: "Shut up, brain."

    MY BRAIN: "...."

    ME: "Wheeeee—uh?! O-o-ohhh. Poor dragon."
     
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  18. Demesnedenoir

    Demesnedenoir Istar

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    Benjen is just another example. The whole Jon is toast this time thing is getting old for even the writers, hence his quick recovery this time, why bother. LOL. One can only hope the real Benjen story is better. The deaths now feel more like tying up loose ends and cutting cast costs than story.

    The chains wll give me a chuckle, no matter what time passed. Too many conveniences lining up, not that it will make not enjoy the show. And it makes me look more forward to the real story.

     
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  19. FifthView

    FifthView Istar

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    The Night King has been around for thousands of years....right? Well, I didn't notice the chains issue at the time, and it's probably because I associate the Night King with unbounded potential. We haven't been shown a weakness yet, unless you include Valyrian steel and dragonglass. (I'm a little uncertain about the dragon glass, given that's how he was created in the first place.) So chains appearing from nowhere? We haven't seen the "where," which could have been at any point in the last thousand years. Maybe he's been planning, and the original plan was to have his giants use those chains to pull down the various gates on the wall. Or maybe he meant to use the chains for climbing the wall. Whatever.

    The only great problem I had with this episode was the teleportation thing again. Apparently Danaerys can be anywhere in Westeros in about 8 hours' time. Check a map; Dragonstone's actually far from north of the wall. Even assuming the dragons can fly at great speed, I'd still have to question how fast a raven can fly. I found a Reddit thread in which someone calculated it, and I'm sure there are other calculations, so.... It would be about 4 days combined of travel time, according to that calculation.

    Lets assume that's an accurate calculation. We then have to assume that Jon & Co. were on that island for 4 days, minimum. In theory, this is possible, since we are given no concrete measure of the passage of time on that island other than going from night to day. But this is the problem. Were they on the island that long? The creators of the show entirely missed that opportunity, if so, of showing the passage of 4 days and the effects that'd have on the group. But it's filmed to "maintain tension." (One would think the writers of the episode have that tacked on their wall, engraved: MAINTAIN TENSION.) And this presents a problem when you have our band of uber-heroes trapped on an island for 4 days. So the writers just skipped over that part and gave us a sense of immediacy, barely a night passing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
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  20. Penpilot

    Penpilot Staff Article Team

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    Spoilery stuff ahead with spoilery speculation.








    I didn't have an issue with the chains. I mean you have an entity that can raise an army of the dead. Somehow I don't think it's beyond belief that he could scrounge up some chains. I don't remember if this was just in the books or not, but weren't the wildlings cornered up against a bay and the Night's Watch sailed up with boats to rescue them?

    If there's a bay, I think you could reasonably assume there could be sunken boats there and that's where they got the chains. But even without the chains, the Night King could have just dove into the water to touch the dragon. The chains, to me, are just for dramatic effect.

    I wasn't bugged by the teleportation, but I sure did notice it. And it made me go a bit squinty-eyed. I think this is where time constraints are digging into the flow. I think all it would have taken was something like a quick establishing shot or scene showing the passage of time to fix those things, but that stuff probably ended up on the cutting room floor.

    As for Sansa, I suspect she's playing the game of thrones and is playing Little Finger, or at the very least she has to catch on quick enough. To me that fits her arc. She's stupid, she gets smart, and then she gets cunning. It fits with all the surviving Stark children rising to power. Bran becomes the three-eyed-crow. Arya becomes a deadly assassin. Jon becomes King. Sansa becomes a cunning B

    I mean if Sansa gets played AGAIN, I'll be sorely disgruntled. It would ruin the character for me, because it would make all the supposed lessons she learned over the course of the show pointless. She wouldn't have learned anything at all.

    As for Danny big heart Jon, a part of me thinks this would be awesome, but then I had it pointed out to me that Rhaegar is Danny's brother, and Jon's dad, so Danny is Jon's aunt. That's messed up. Hahahha. We'll at least she can't have children, so no babies with extra fingers and toes.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
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