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GoT vs. ASoIaF [SPOILER-FEST]

Discussion in 'Film & Television' started by Legendary Sidekick, Apr 7, 2014.

  1. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    Cool as it was to have the singer's music echoing from the Sky Cells, this is probably the only deviation I actually fell in love with.

    It made sense not to hire an actor to play the fall guy, since you couldn't really establish that the singer was Lysa's favorite... not without having more screen-time for Lysa, and there are more interesting characters/scenes to show. The suicide made sense, so I was impressed with how they handled this part. There are some deviations I like, too, but this is the only one I loved and didn't even have a part of me contemplating whether they'd be better off following the book.

    I don't know if it's a deviation that Sansa testified without Littlefinger telling her what to say first, but I loved his poker-face. It made sense that he'd let Sansa have her say. Even if she was about to end him with her words, any attempt to stop her would have been proof of his guilt. Sansa telling who she is (which I'm pretty sure is a deviation) also made sense, as it's been clarified to her that she's not good liar. Best to start her lie with truth, then when she's shaken and in tears, no one questions that her nervousness is from lying. She just revealed her identity, which is something she should be scared to do! A brilliant way for an honest person to try deception for the first time.

    So, yeah... I love Darth Sansa. I forgot where I read that. I'm commenting on her character, not her Disney Villainess look, but still... a great scene, which even stands out in the shadow of Oberon's exploding head.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2014
  2. Sir Kieran

    Sir Kieran Scribe

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    This was definitely a deviation, but one that is working excellently. In the books, Littlefinger makes it clear that she is Alayne Stone, and that no one else is to ever know. However, the scene was one of my favorites. Sophie Turner has really grown into the role, and I would say that her speech was her best acting yet. I even felt a little emotional at watching her, and on my rewatch of the episode, momentarily believed everything that she was saying. This is a deviation from the books that I can understand and appreciate; it makes Sansa's story much more interesting.

    As other people have brought up, now it's just a question of what will happen to her in Season 5, since this episode just about closed her storyline in A Feast for Crows (minus Littlefinger deviously revealing his maniacal takeover plan to her . . . which I wonder if that will be included in the show at all).
     
  3. teacup

    teacup Auror

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    I'll post this on both threads. It's worth it to watch this guy's reviews, too. They make me laugh.

    This is a funny video, Oberyn vs The Mountain, denial version.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2017
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  4. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    Just read a review that said "Grenn and Pyp both die, yet another departure from the books." No wonder I was surprised by their deaths. Usually, changing who lives/dies bothers me. I guess this episode was that good that I'm not even bothered by it.

    I didn't realize the bald coward was Janos Slynt. I remember his part from book 5 much more clearly. Now that the show reminded me of his cowardice, the "I want his boots" scene will be that much more satisfying!
     
  5. Sir Kieran

    Sir Kieran Scribe

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    Since I've read the books, I don't necessarily react with complete shock to anything (although the Red Wedding really got me), but I gasped and leaned forward in my chair when Pyp died. I know it's a deviation from the book, but not one that really upsets me too much. Pyp and Grenn don't have too big of a part coming up (but I believe Edd does, so at least he lived). I think the producers want to focus on Jon, Sam, Stannis, Mel, and Davos at the Wall.

    Also, on the ASOIAF forum, one user mentioned that since Tormund Giantsbane has been captured (in the books, he is still free and Val goes to find him in Book 5), that Val will not be a character in the next season.

    These are definitely deviations from the books, but ones that I don't mind. It will give us more time to focus on the central characters. Personally, I'm a supporter of Stannis (I've heard Stannis supporters called Stanstans, Stanfans, Stannis fannis) so I hope we get a lot of him next season. I would love to see his attempted invasion of Winterfell, instead of just hearing about it.
     
  6. SeverinR

    SeverinR Vala

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    I know its not in the script, but those wounds were fatal. One does not spit up blood with out the lung or the stomach being pierced. Without antibiotic, these wounds would be fatal.

    Cupids arrows was painful to one, deadly to the other, but yet he stills knows nothing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2017
  7. teacup

    teacup Auror

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    I can't remember properly from the books, so I might be wrong, but in the books didn't Stannis and his army swoop in and turn the tide of the battle between the Wildlings and the Night's Watch? Is it a deviation from the book that he didn't, or does that just happen later on in the books?

    I don't mind if it is a deviation. I've enjoyed all of the deviations so far. (Except the Jaime rapey stuff.)

    I was watching the episode and just waiting throughout for Stannis to arrive, and he didn't :p I'm interested to see when he will show up. (And when he did show up in the books, too.)



    It was a great episode. I'm looking forward to the finale now.
     
  8. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    I'm guessing Jon will find Stannis next episode while he's outside. In the books, Jon had his moment with Ygritte after the fighting was (temporarily) over. Stannins wasn't involved in the battle when Jon had barrels of burning oil dropped on either side, or something like that so the willing were surrounded by fire and trapped well below Jon and other archers.

    I also remember[SUP]1[/SUP][SUB][/SUB] there was a little break between dead wildling women. Harma Dogshead's death stood out for me, since it made Stannis' men look like cold-hearted bastards[SUP]2[/SUP][SUB][/SUB], even when they were swooping in to save the day.

    1. Disclaimer: my memory sucks.
    2. I suspect this is the intended effect.
     
  9. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    If you didn't see the final episode yet, don't open the spoiler tag. The finale had a few surprises, and I'm just curious about people's thoughts...

    First of all, Jojen Reed... he DID live in the book, didn't he? I'm not complaining so much as I'm wondering if killing him off means he's going to die in the books.

    Brienne meeting Arya was cute. Her killing Sandor (or leaving him in really bad shape if he does live) was certainly interesting. I had to assure my wife Brienne is alive in the book, but by the time this scene was up, there were already some dead characters who had also lived in the book.

    I'm not sure why Catelyn wasn't revealed at the end. Are they going to just not have her? Is she only important to Brienne's story? And of course my other question is what will Brienne say when she meets Jaime? The Sandor/Arya thing would actually be true as far as she knows (seeing how Sandor's fall is a likely death but not a confirmed kill).

    I actually liked Tyrion and Jaime parting on friendly terms. I can see why they made that change, seeing how there wasn't time to build up animosity between the brothers. Non-readers only know Jaime's helping Tyrion escape. I guess without really getting into his head, to have him say "I killed your son, and next time we meet, I'll kill you" would have come off as irrational.



    Really, I've been complaining about deviations, but I enjoyed last night's episode and the one before in spite of them. This is my first season watching as a reader, so maybe I needed a few episodes to get used to the fact that the show deviates quite a bit from the book.

    I read the Twin death to my wife after the show. I think she was happy that he was shot elsewhere in the show. I missed the "shit gold" line, but really, there wasn't a good way to work in those unspoken words in the show.
     
  10. SeverinR

    SeverinR Vala

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    Just got cable back, with a 3 month subs to HBO.
    Got to see the final episode tonight.

    *Wow. Was the Black waterloo in the privy close to the book, did he really die in the books?
    *Broken femor could mean death, but not confirmed dead.
    *The children have great powers then Brann can learn,
    *the black sheep wolf finds the path to her destany, all men must die, all men must serve.

    Final episode spoilers follow:

    I think Shay was the worst twist they tried to pass off as a betrayal. Imo it was a failure in writing. She was loyal, risking death for Sansa and Tyrion. She refused to leave them when offered great money to leave. Then she does the ultimate betrayal and serves his father?
    The only way to redeem this failing would be for Tyrion to find that Shay was plotting against Tywin. Hard to establish when she pulled a knife on Tyrion. But I believe this would also destroy Tyrion, knowing he killed his love that never truly betrayed him.
    I still love the show, but I think this was purely done for shock value.
     
  11. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    @Severin,

    Yes, it's true to the books. If it won't ruin it for you, here's an excerpt.


    Tyrion’s finger clenched. The crossbow
    whanged just as Lord Tywin started to rise. The bolt slammed into him above the groin and he sat back down with a grunt. The quarrel had sunk deep, right to the fletching. Blood seeped out around the shaft, dripping down into his pubic hair and over his bare thighs. “You shot me,” he said incredulously, his eyes glassy with shock.

    “You always were quick to grasp a situation, my lord,” Tyrion said. “That must be why you’re the Hand of the King.”

    “You … you are no … no son of mine.”

    “Now that’s where you’re wrong, Father. Why, I believe I’m you writ small. Do me a kindness now, and die quickly. I have a ship to catch.”

    For once, his father did what Tyrion asked him. The proof was the sudden stench, as his bowels loosened in the moment of death. Well, he was in the right place for it, Tyrion thought. But the stink that filled the privy gave ample evidence that the oft-repeated jape about his father was just another lie.

    Lord Tywin Lannister did not, in the end, shit gold.

    (A Storm of Swords, Martin, p.1073)



    In the spirit of Spoiler-Fest, you can read more of how it went down in the books on MTV News.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 11, 2017
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  12. ThinkerX

    ThinkerX Myth Weaver

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    Minor spoiler:

    The old man Bran meets at the tree is 'Bloodraven', a character from a series of shorts GRRM wrote set several decades prior to the events of the novels and television series. ('Dunk and Egg' - Dunk being a hedge knight, Egg being a heir to the throne).

    Bloodraven was Hand to the King, and had a reputation as a sorcerer in a time when magic was believed extinct. 'Thousand eyes and one' - because he had only one eye, but spies everywhere. Later he was exiled to the Wall, where he became Lord Commander of the Nights Watch...before vanishing on a ranging. Very smart, very capable, very dangerous.
     
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  13. SeverinR

    SeverinR Vala

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    "I got you something for fathers day, Daddy, I hope you get the point." Tyrion Lannister.
     
  14. SeverinR

    SeverinR Vala

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  15. ThinkerX

    ThinkerX Myth Weaver

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    Yeah, it be way early. But I am a Game of Thrones fan, and I do harbor the hope that 'Winds of Winter' will be out before the next season airs. Which got me to thinking...

    Most of the character arcs this time around coincided with the end of book three. A few pushed into book four or fell short. So...how far does the next season take things? My best guess:

    Ayra: TV and book both ended with her getting on a ship to Bravos. In the books, it's mostly 'training' or 'petty revenge' type stuff for her in Bravos, but sooner or later she has to leave. My guess is her series five story will finish the same way this one did - with her getting aboard a ship, this one sailing to Westeros.

    Bran: Bran pushed clear into book 5 this TV season. Next season...I don't think Martins published works run that far yet (show outpacing books). Come on 'Winds of Winter!'


    Breinne: Season four ended with her well into the events of book four. My best guess here is she gets hanged in season five...or possibly appears long enough to lure Jaime away from his army.

    Cersei: Book and show ended in the same place. Next time around...I suspect she'll end up imprisoned by the church...or maybe make her 'walk of shame.'

    Dany: To all intents and purposes, season and show ended in the same place. She doesn't do much after that in the books, though...at least not until her dragon fly's her away. Be a good spot to end next season.

    Davos: Not really sure where he finished at in the show, but probably somewhere in book three. And he sort of vanishes about the middle of book five. So...next season ends either with him imprisoned in White Harbor...or sailing for Skagos (looking for Rickon).

    Jaime: Book and show ended about the same place this time around. Main thing he does in the books afterward is to take the Tully's castle...and vanish with Breinne. Either would be a good mark to hit.

    Jon: Jon, in season four, fell short of the ending in book three. He has to jump up to the command slot...but past that, he's mostly negotiating rather than fighting...until the stabbing scene. Maybe the next season will take things that far.

    Sam: Like Jon, season four didn't reach the end of book three. He has to scheme to make Jon Commander of the Nights Watch, then board a ship bound for Bravos and make a connection from there to Old Town...yet I find myself wondering if this isn't a part of the book that will get chopped in the show. Have Sam remain on the Wall. But the end of the TV season could see him in either Bravos or Old Town.

    Sansa: The show differed from the books. She is now in book four territory, more or less. Who knows what may happen?

    Theon: Another that varied from the books, but seemingly in book five. I have a suspicion he may not survive the season. His sister may fare better.

    Tyrion: Show and book ended in the same spot. But past that, in the books, he's mostly traveling. I could see him reaching the slaver cities, standing on the beach, as the ironborn come swarming ashore with murder on their minds...

    I figure a fair amount of next season, though will revolve around events in the Iron Islands and in Dorne: the former send a fleet clear to Slavers Bay, and the later has to deal with substantial unrest.
     
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