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Sex?

Nebuchadnezzar

Troubadour
Ireth, that's up to you and your readers/fan base. I'm just saying that my impression is that that particular sub-genre is leaning a certain way. I could easily be wrong and I'm sure a good writer could carve out their own path.
 

Alexandra

Closed Account
The only reason I'd consider actually including a sex scene in my writing is if it actually serves a plot purpose...

That restriction/qualifier should apply to every scene in your book, whether the scene is sexual or not. Every sex scene, fight scene, conversation, lengthy description, et al. If said collection of words does not serve a purpose tis superfluous and should be edited out...unless you're a verbose Victorian author and are being paid by the word (Dickens) or hope to be :wink:
 

Mindfire

Istar
Why is sex more contentious than violence? No one thinks twice about describing how one character guts another like a fish but the friendly poke is verbotten!?! Why?

I'll try to avoid derailing the thread by getting religious on everyone. :p

Simply put: violence can be impersonal and clinical, while most of us consider sex a deeply private and personal thing, which makes it a more sensitive subject.
 
These are interesting things to talk about. I was always under the impression that the idea that violence is OK but sex isn't was an American thing mostly and that other countries viewed adult content as being adult content or that nudity was OK but violence isn't?

I usually imply the sex because I guess my goal is not to titillate, but rather to inspire usually. I find heroic deeds in battle inspiring. It's a little more difficult to be heroic in the bedroom. In my next work, The Warrior's Way, I am going outside my comfort zone and writing in at least one sex scene, but more because I need the intimacy shown between the two characters so that there is not a distance between the act and the reader's comprehension of it. It's the normal show vs tell pros and cons. Use them to establish the desired amount of distance (whether that's emotional or physical distance) between the events and characters of the book and the readers.
 

CupofJoe

Myth Weaver
I don't have problem with writing or reading the sexual act but most of the time it is usually very boring. Unless your character has a dysfunction and focusing on that is the point of the scene, sex scenes are usually become "Mary Sue" scenes... everything perfect and nothing at all messy... a battle scene isn't exciting or interesting if you know your hero is going to win and win easily. There is no drama.
It wasn't in a fantasy book but the best sex I've ever read was the internal monologue of a young and more than slightly hopeless man during sex with the woman he had dreamed about for years. There were pauses, gaps, random and not so random words, hopes and aspirations and even pleas to the Gods that let the reader imply the actual acts. It was all context. It was funny, poignant and very effective.
 
I'm of the opinion that when sex is not used for plot purposes in fantasy, it slips farther and farther from assuming the fantasy genre, and closer to erotica, with a fantasy background.

Now, I've never read any of these explicit novels (I'm a minor, and I stick to the rules), but that just strengthens my opinion somehow, and I steadfastly oppose sex with no plot connection. If there's no point to it, why put it there? It should be treated as any normal scene with just the distinguishing factor of it being inappropriate for certain audiences.
 
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I'm of the opinion that a notable (albeit minority) percentage of fantasy is erotica, subtype gornography. As much as I dislike some of the connections people draw between sex and violence, I don't think there's a substantial difference between spurting blood and spurting . . . you know. (And truth be told, I'm happier writing a cute little sex scene between a loving couple than a bloody battle.)

Of course, that doesn't make much of a difference to those of you who don't write sex or gore.
 
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TheokinsJ

Troubadour
I guess before writing these scenes you have to think carefully about how this will affect the audience you are aiming the book at (Will this mean that you will lose a large number of children/teenager readers). Also if it's not vital to the story, I see no need for it. I see sex scenes as something that authors put in to make their books more popular, no other reason. Think of all the great fantasies that never had sex scenes and that were so great. That said, if it plays an important role in the story, or if it adds to the development of a character and is written well, it can work really well.
 

Kit

Maester
I can barely write a makeout scene, much less a sex scene... but my WIP has my MC pursuing another character for a long time, and I feel like if there's no payoff when she finally gets him, readers will feel....unfulfilled.


PS: From now on, whenever I start a new thread, I'm going to title it "sex" just to be sure to get everyone to click on it. :p
 

Ophiucha

Auror
I'm of the opinion that a notable (albeit minority) percentage of fantasy is erotica, subtype gornography. As much as I dislike some of the connections people draw between sex and violence, I don't think there's a substantial difference between spurting blood and spurting . . . you know. (And truth be told, I'm happier writing a cute little sex scene between a loving couple than a bloody battle.)

Of course, that doesn't make much of a difference to those of you who don't write sex or gore.

Goodness yes, some fantasy writers I know could make horror writers go pale with the graphic violence they put in their works. I read a fantasy story not long ago where the main character had to get his arm sawed off, and they showed that in full detail. Bones split through the elbows and all. Given the circumstances, I wouldn't say it was out of place - it was a traumatic moment for the character, and one that ended in him not having an arm for the rest of the story - but it did take up a few pages, no less than any sex scene I have ever read.

Speaking of horror and erotica, anyone read China Mieville's Perdido Street Station? There is a sex scene in that which I somehow doubt was meant to titillate and certainly didn't break character or tone. It was traumatizing and I think everyone whose ever read the book was scarred by the scene.
 

Kit

Maester
Thanks. :p

In all seriousness, though, I have seen some situations where readers were giving feedback on a work, and the author had done one of those "fade to black" things.... and the readers were like, "Are you kidding?!??! Is that all we get? Oh man!" The longer the situation had been drawn out, and the more invested they are in the characters, it seems that many of them really want that "payoff".

They want it bad! :D
 
C

Chessie

Guest
Yeah, I agree with you on that! If there is a long chase then the pay off should be sweeter. Goes back to the idea that if you build up for it, you better provide sort of thing.

Haha even if people don't think sex scenes belong in writing, we all still clicked on the sexiest thread alive right now! :D
 

soulless

Troubadour
Out of the five novelish stories I currently have in my head, and the couple of shorts too actually, there's only one scene of sex I need for pushing my major character into a discovery, I haven't really thought of having any sex elsewhere altho I'm sure there could be some of that business going on it wouldn't be important to the plot.
 

Devora

Sage
But do writers need to be explicit if they include a sex scene, or can you simply express the emotion that goes on within the scene?
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
But do writers need to be explicit if they include a sex scene, or can you simply express the emotion that goes on within the scene?

I guess it depends on what kind of story you're writing. If you are writing an explicit story (and those seem to sell), then of course you go that route. It is part of the draw for those readers. I tend not to write explicit scenes of that nature, because that's not what my stories are about.
 

Ophiucha

Auror
I don't know if you need to be explicit (unless you want to be), but I really don't like it when there is no physical description. Not out of need for titillation (I'd just read fanfiction if I wanted that), but because they just don't read very well without any. I've read some sex scenes that were nothing but ~feelings~ and it just reads like a two page fever dream instead of a sex scene. You may not need to get into the slot a's and plug b's, but if it's just emotions and vague light touches it almost never makes a lick of sense. Also, I find the high on the feelings once to be a little too perfect, usually. I guess that can work if you're trying to pull a really cheesy romantic angle, but that sort of thing can easily break the tone of the story.

And really, I think tone and style are more important than anything else. Feo mentioned gore before, and I think it is valid here. Because 'fading to black' and romantic euphorias might be good for the fantasy where every slice of a sword ends with the soldier falling to the ground, no fuss no muss, but it's a bit out of place to be coy if you spend the rest of your story describing the dangling bits of flesh and gushing blood after a dragon takes a chunk out of your comic relief character. Do what works best for your story, but be consistent about it.
 
I don't know if you need to be explicit (unless you want to be), but I really don't like it when there is no physical description. Not out of need for titillation (I'd just read fanfiction if I wanted that), but because they just don't read very well without any. I've read some sex scenes that were nothing but ~feelings~ and it just reads like a two page fever dream instead of a sex scene. You may not need to get into the slot a's and plug b's, but if it's just emotions and vague light touches it almost never makes a lick of sense. Also, I find the high on the feelings once to be a little too perfect, usually. I guess that can work if you're trying to pull a really cheesy romantic angle, but that sort of thing can easily break the tone of the story.

And really, I think tone and style are more important than anything else. Feo mentioned gore before, and I think it is valid here. Because 'fading to black' and romantic euphorias might be good for the fantasy where every slice of a sword ends with the soldier falling to the ground, no fuss no muss, but it's a bit out of place to be coy if you spend the rest of your story describing the dangling bits of flesh and gushing blood after a dragon takes a chunk out of your comic relief character. Do what works best for your story, but be consistent about it.

This is an interesting way of looking at it, but I might actually go in the opposite direction. Graphic violence creates a lessening feeling--"This is a setting where life has little value." I think a properly done sex scene can build investment in a character and a relationship--"These people are cute together, and I want them to survive."* The two can contrast each other, but the latter may still be useful in a story that doesn't rely much on the former.

* I am here excluding rape scenes, which to me are more like scenes of violence than standard sex. I'm also not considering hatesex, although that could certainly be an interesting way of building characters.:p
 

Ophiucha

Auror
Also a valid perspective.

Gratuitous detail of any sort is honestly something of a standard in this genre. If it's not sex or violence, it's enough details about what the characters are eating that you can make, not one, but two, entire cookbooks out of your series. I mean, I tend to agree that nothing should be included if it isn't necessary, but I hate how people treat sex scenes like they are inherently more unnecessary than anything else. They can be used to build character, titillate, have a moment of relief or humour, traumatize the readers forever (*China Mieville*), further the plot or a (romantic?) subplot, and even worldbuild (because safe sex is great sex and I'd like to know how your characters protect against fantasy!chlamydia). And if it is just pointless in every way, well, Tolkien spent pages writing out poems in Elvish. This is fantasy, not literary fiction. *

* Unless you are writing magic realism or something.
 
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Gratuitous anything is bad writing. Bad sex scenes are usually bad because the writer has (for whatever reason) disengaged from the reality of what is happening. In real life, sex usually has consequences (especially when done for the first time, as so many literary sex scenes are). Two paths have been brought together (even if only temporarily) and this has to be dealt with - people change after they've 'done it' - and this has consequences for a story. If the writer is not properly dealing with the set up or the consequences, then I guarantee they are not really in the room with the characters when they write the sex scene.

Let me ask a question of those who've written sex scenes: Removed by Moderator
 
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