GoT Season Five [NO SPOILERS, PLEASE]

[MineOwnKing]

Hyperhidrosis?
or a nervous condition? (Probably a secondary character flaw)
No deodorant in those times, probably not to pleasant to be around.

It's probably summer and he's standing in front of a blue screen with a bear skin cloak on; I would sweat too.

Speaking of cold, what exactly do the northerners eat,..snow?

Only an inexperienced city slicker would imagine there might be enough to eat for an army in those mountains.

I'd say that's a pretty big hole in the story.

No food, equals no healthy, armed and muscle bound army.

Even a herd of caribou would soon be decimated.

I hope the next season focuses on the south, I've had enough of pointless meanderings through the snow.

I hate snow, I've had decades of it.

Shoveling snow is an exercise in futility which produces nothing of value.

Mowing grass too. I hate it. Completely takes away from valuable writing time.

 

[ThinkerX]

Speaking of cold, what exactly do the northerners eat,..snow?

Only an inexperienced city slicker would imagine there might be enough to eat for an army in those mountains.

I'd say that's a pretty big hole in the story.

No food, equals no healthy, armed and muscle bound army.

Even a herd of caribou would soon be decimated.

Satin came from a farming encampment near the Wall. According to the books, there are quite a few such.

Warmer portions of Westeros donated food as well as men to the Wall. At one point in the books, Jon Snow accompanies his Steward on a sort of inventory of the Wall's stores.

Not mentioned in the TV series, but in the books: Winterfell grew lots of veggies in great big greenhouses during the winter months.

Apart from that, I dwell in Alaska. Certain crops - potatoes, cabbage, a few other things grow very well (tales of cabbages checking in at hundreds of pounds are common enough). Other veggies do passably well. Barley is grown almost as far north as Fairbanks, just shy of the Arctic Circle, though the yields are not exactly spectacular. Folks used to have a crab apple tree on the homestead, sour apples the size of golf balls.

 

[MineOwnKing]

I meant wildlings.

I was being silly.

The scenes they show are of mountain tops.

Nothing but snow on granite. Probably not many cabbages grown on that.

Alaska has fish and periods of warmth.

I live in the cold too. It sucks.

Screw it, I'm moving to Belize to live out my days.

I can't take it anymore.

 

[ThinkerX]

I meant wildlings.

From what I saw, the TV series didn't really get it into it that much, but the wildlings were a pretty dispersed and varied bunch, ranging from literal savages to quasi civilized.

Alaskan / Far North equivalent would be the Athabaskans / Eskimos - semi nomadic hunter gatherers. Others appeared to engage in agriculture. Worth noting the series takes place at the onset of winter, after the snow would be 'down for the duration.'

Screw it, I'm moving to Belize to live out my days.

Looking to perish of heatstroke then. We had temperatures of 80F+ a few weeks ago. I thought I was going to melt. Belize is that plus another 20 - 30 degrees. Plus snakes.

 

[MineOwnKing]

The yearly average in Belize is only 75F.

There are snakes but I'm not planning on venturing too far from whichever watering hole takes my fancy.

I'm a water person living in a vast sea of corn fields. I just can't take it anymore.

I've had 40 years of winter. I grew up taking care of sled dogs. In the summer I mow 4 acres of lawn every week. When it snows in the winter, it's a 5 hour task of plowing and shoveling.

I hate farming too. Too many years stuck in the hay mow. Screw it.

In my opinion, these are all just exercises in futility.

When you mow the grass, it grows back, when you shovel snow, it snows again.

I can't stand to waste my time on things that are not permanent.

Only written words can offer me that.

I want a hut on the beach, with umbrella drinks and bikinis.

No shovels, no lawn mowers.

Just my pen and the sparkles of light on the waves to invigorate me.

 

[Manalodia]

I think I can answer that without giving away spoilers...because there are none.

Originally, GRRM planned a five year gap in the WRITTEN series between books 3 and 4 (Seasons 4 and 5 in the TV series, more or less). Two reasons:

1 - In the books, many of the character are much younger - Jon Snow is something like 13 or 14, and Arya is 10 or 11, while Bran is maybe 8. He wanted to set things up so the youngsters would have time to mature at their various positions - Lord Commander of the Nights Watch, Faceless Woman, Magician, Queen (in the case of Dany).

2 - He wanted time for greater developments - rise of a militant church, decline of Lannister authority, slave revolts on the other continent, and what not to happen without appearing rushed.

But what prevented this was something that turned out to be trivial in the books and more sideline than ought else in the series - Dorne. Plus, while many characters were not doing much, others like Cersei were extremely busy during the gap. He tried various solutions. One of the more interesting was a seven chapter prologue, but even that didn't work.

So GRRM did away with the gap. If events happened unreasonably fast, so be it, and if you have very young characters thinking and acting like adults, well, then deal with it.

In the series, they took a different approach, and made the younger characters five years older - probably a good thing (imagine 14 year old Sansa with Ramsey).

So it's true then. He's a good storyteller, but horrible writer.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

So it's true then. He's a good storyteller, but horrible writer.

Sure, he's a horrible writer with millions of fans.

You don't achieve a career like GRRM by being horrible at your craft.

 

[ThinkerX]

Sure, he's a horrible writer with millions of fans.

You don't achieve a career like GRRM by being horrible at your craft.

At the risk of a thread jack...I have read a fair pile of GRRM's earlier works.

'Windover' was a collaboration with Wurts, and was a series of novellas combined to make a novel. Good story, but it always read a little...'flat'...to me.

'Tuf Voyaging' was the same way - a series of novellas first published in Asimov's (or maybe F&SF or Analog, I forget which), later combined into a single novel.

The 'Dany Sequence' from book 1 also appeared as a separate novella or serial in Asimov's (wedding to the hatching of the dragons).

He had a couple of longer works (Armageddon Rag being the main one) that tanked big time (and which I suspect were published because of his status as a 'name' author.)

Plus, GRRM had a long career as a screenwriter mixed in with all this. My understanding is screenplays for 1 hour time slots probably work out to around novella length in the writing world. And I believe it was the connections he retained in Hollywood that got Game of Thrones made into a TV series more than anything else.

So, it might be more apt to think of GRRM as a sort of hybrid novelist / screenwriter. He did comment years ago that he'd never attempted anything on the scale of GOT in his previous career. Plus, he's a 'panster' - no outlining, which probably accounts for much of his slow progress.

 

[SeverinR]

The yearly average in Belize is only 75F.

There are snakes but I'm not planning on venturing too far from whichever watering hole takes my fancy.

I'm a water person living in a vast sea of corn fields. I just can't take it anymore.

I've had 40 years of winter. I grew up taking care of sled dogs. In the summer I mow 4 acres of lawn every week. When it snows in the winter, it's a 5 hour task of plowing and shoveling.

I hate farming too. Too many years stuck in the hay mow. Screw it.

In my opinion, these are all just exercises in futility.

When you mow the grass, it grows back, when you shovel snow, it snows again.

I can't stand to waste my time on things that are not permanent.

Only written words can offer me that.

I want a hut on the beach, with umbrella drinks and bikinis.

No shovels, no lawn mowers.

Just my pen and the sparkles of light on the waves to invigorate me.

Sadly, most "tourist" spots don't have the relaxing and natural beach life. So much build up, it's hard or very expensive to find a spot on the beach to live. The low cost of living is gone also.

No a days, its probably cheaper to buy a deserted tropical island and build what you want then to live amongst the beach life. The ideal picture of two beach chairs alone on a (clean) private beach is a very costly one.
Reality is, two beach chairs among hundreds of others, where if you don't get up early to claim them, you'd be hard pressed to find them empty.

 

[SeverinR]

Even the president asked about Jon Snow.
To which, the same answer was given. Jon Snow is dead.

"You know nothing Jon Snow."
I believe even the president would be given the same answer. Snow is dead until the fire god brings him back to life.
Even with winter coming, I do believe Snow will be dormant next season.

 

[MineOwnKing]

Sadly, most "tourist" spots don't have the relaxing and natural beach life. So much build up, it's hard or very expensive to find a spot on the beach to live. The low cost of living is gone also.

No a days, its probably cheaper to buy a deserted tropical island and build what you want then to live amongst the beach life. The ideal picture of two beach chairs alone on a (clean) private beach is a very costly one.
Reality is, two beach chairs among hundreds of others, where if you don't get up early to claim them, you'd be hard pressed to find them empty.

I'm sure you're right.

However, I've had 43 years of private. I can piss off of my front step all day long and not a soul would spy me save the barn swallows and pheasants.

More people equals more bikinis.

I can look miles in every direction and never see a person or a vehicle 24/7.

Privacy can be just as taxing as anything else people find annoying.

I guess it wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't covered in snow for 8 months out of the year.

I need to be near water. I don't care where it takes me, as long as it's warm, wet, cheap, bursting with bikinis, boat drinks and BBQ joints that serve rum with a slice of nirvana-enlightenment.

 

[Manalodia]

Sure, he's a horrible writer with millions of fans.

You don't achieve a career like GRRM by being horrible at your craft.

Many flies can be attracted to a single turd, yet doesn't make it wonderful. Not to be so mean,
I don't necessarily think many fans make him a good writer. Like I said, he could just be good at telling a story.
Most of the fanbase comes from the show and many will never read his books. They like the story being told, even
some of the actors in the show liked the script and never read his books. A lot of factors go into his success other than
being a good writer; people just love sex, nudity and a dark, dark, grim political drama

 

[Manalodia]

At the risk of a thread jack...I have read a fair pile of GRRM's earlier works.

'Windover' was a collaboration with Wurts, and was a series of novellas combined to make a novel. Good story, but it always read a little...'flat'...to me.

'Tuf Voyaging' was the same way - a series of novellas first published in Asimov's (or maybe F&SF or Analog, I forget which), later combined into a single novel.

The 'Dany Sequence' from book 1 also appeared as a separate novella or serial in Asimov's (wedding to the hatching of the dragons).

He had a couple of longer works (Armageddon Rag being the main one) that tanked big time (and which I suspect were published because of his status as a 'name' author.)

Plus, GRRM had a long career as a screenwriter mixed in with all this. My understanding is screenplays for 1 hour time slots probably work out to around novella length in the writing world. And I believe it was the connections he retained in Hollywood that got Game of Thrones made into a TV series more than anything else.

So, it might be more apt to think of GRRM as a sort of hybrid novelist / screenwriter. He did comment years ago that he'd never attempted anything on the scale of GOT in his previous career. Plus, he's a 'panster' - no outlining, which probably accounts for much of his slow progress.

I always wondered why he seemed to take to making his books a show so easily and accept the drastic changes. I guess being a screenwriter did have much to do with it, as I wondered if he actually had been one. I think Steven King makes a better one though.

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

GRRM defends D&D (the GoT showrunners) for making changes to his works. He says that with different mediums, it's better to tell the story differently.

While I don't entirely agree that all of D&D's changes were good or better for the screen, I agree with GRRM's premise. An example of a change that was good for the screen would be the pit fight. Having Jorah in the fight was good for the screen, while for the book, it was great to get to know some of the fighters before they killed or got killed.

For the first time in my life, I'm rewriting my own work for a different medium. My "Awesome Warrior" story has some changes in the comic version. For example, in the text version, the party healer is a faith healer who carries a hammer. But in the comic, he's an unarmed monk, and his only function is to heal. My reason for this change is that it's not worth it to show this character armed or fighting, since the focus is only on him while he's healing Addison (MC). Even where Addison hits the monster will be changed, since it's easier to position her where the monster can retaliate without having to move around so much. In text, I expect the reader's imagination keeps people and monsters moving in battle. In a comic, I can't move anyone too far without the art supporting that, or the action will be choppy. I try to choreograph my battles so attacks and counterattacks can happen without a need for several moves in between.

I plan to keep death and survival the same, but making a comic does help me to see why filmmakers make changes when basing a film on a novel.

(I still won't forgive Jurassic Park for reversing almost every character's death/survival, though.)

 

[SeverinR]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_received_by_Game_of_Thrones
Several wins for stunts and visual effects.

Maisie Williams won for best performance by a young actress.

I think next year, both Arya and Bran could have a good season to win awards with. (Handicapped children triumphing over adversity has good possibilities of awards if they can live up to the scene.)

Also Game of Thrones is nominated for 24 Emmy awards. (Can't find what category they are in. I think Cersei is up for one. (a walk to remember?) I bet a lot of them will be for stunts and visual effects.
Tyrion-Not thinking he had a good season to show off his greatness.
Dany-maybe, many dramatic scenes for her.
Snow-not seeing, memorable award winning scenes this season.
Arya-maybe, can't think of one great one.

I'm thinking the awards will be for spectacular battle scenes, make up and graphic effects.

 

[Manalodia]

I don't mean to say all the changes were bad, some may work better for TV rather than in a novel; however, D&D use shock value to keep up the hype of the show. If not some horrid death, it will be rape of some fashion or bountiful nudity. These were in the books, but had a purpose behind them, but the way the show has presented most of it is distorted and vastly immature to the point that it's grim atmosphere becomes childish. It's HBO, I understand they have an image to live up to, but the fact that Martin finds it okay is sad to me. I personally think his new celebrity is taking away what creativity he had.

 

[Manalodia]

You do realize that awards shows are very political in nature and have very little to do with actual talent? It's a show with a huge following, so why would it not gain awards? It has the look and feel of a show that would have them in this current day and age. If Nikki Minage, Miley Cyrus, Lady Gaga and sooo many other "talented" artists can win awards, then my intuition tells me earning such awards has more to do with other elements in the background.

I don't watch TV in the first place, but what I have seen now and then which are considered popular shows are commonly devoid of any morality. If that is what people want to see, then no wonder we have the society we do.

 

[MineOwnKing]

I have to disagree with Manalodia.

Personally I welcome the explicit nature of modern entertainment.

I think of GoT as a refreshing leap into a new media age, full of the potential for great things.

I think the nudity especially is long over due.

I love my wife, and I want to see her naked as much as possible.

Wanting to see women naked is a normal thing and I don't consider it shocking.

If I buy a new car, I want it to have air conditioning. If I watch a new sword and sorcery show or movie, I want it to have all the cool things that I love about fantasy, including nudity and violence.

Thanks to great pioneers like Howard Stern, we have finally loosened the chains of censorship.

I also think that Nikki Minaj is very talented and works hard at what she does. When I listen to her sing or watch her videos I am transported to a fantasy.

I can only ever hope that my writing has the ability to transport peoples' minds into entertaining escapism as well as the Starships video.

 

[Manalodia]

You are welcome to disagree, but at the same time show how you embrace what destroys the youth. Everything has been sexualized for decades; it is far from something new. Of course we are not Europe with nudity on prime-time TV, but the ratings systems have lowered enough that even bare breasts are acceptable for young teens. How many teen pregnancies do we have? How young does sexual experimentation start? Too young if you look at the research. Most times it first occurs between siblings and the statistics for that are far higher numbers than most will admit, especially since the numbers are modest when factoring in the amount of pornographic sites containing incest. How does that relate? Children left to their own devises in these broken homes are the highest chances of these forms of sexual assault or molestation (depending on age).

Children are being raised by the TV or cell-phones this generation because parents cannot afford to stay home and raise them. Public education is teaching them WHAT to think, not HOW to think. We have a steadily declining education ranking in all fields, yet youth participation in the social-media market is the highest it has ever been. Sex sells to a base mind, but only the mature can appreciate a naked body without having to see it every given moment. Maturity is knowing and respecting something, not ogling and fantasizing like a hormone-crazed boy.

I'm sure you love your wife, but the first step for all affairs is looking, and that leads to something else. Not every man has enough control to refine them to thoughts before they become fantasy and eventually something acted upon. To a woman, pornography or even thinking of another woman in a sexual way is infidelity of the emotional/mental kind and damages trust.

Howard Stern is a pioneer? O_O Well, that says a lot...

I will be blunt and say you have no taste in considering Nikki Minaj talented. She does not write her own material, nor her shallow routines. She is a corporate tool that does what she is told, from what to sing and how to look. How can you enjoy the degradation of another human being to be nothing more than eye-candy and tool for corporate agenda?

Look beneath the surface of things to truly see the world for what it is; I would think fantasy above all else would help an individual understand the concept of "behind the veil".

Research social engineering before embracing social media. TV, as the man that created it said, was not for entertainment, rather a means to make money from the consumer and manipulate through various modes of mind-control to keep the consumer watching, programmed in what they should buy, what they hear and believe. I think anyone can agree to that with even a slight background in psychology and how media works.

 

[MineOwnKing]

You are welcome to disagree,

You do not have the authority to grant me permission to disagree, I disagree out of my own accord.

you embrace what destroys the youth.

This statement is an attack on my character that is unfounded. Not only is it slander against me, but it is an erroneous statement. There is never one definitive thing that can be blamed for the individual plights of society. Your statement blurs truth with opinion and unverified assumption.

Everything has been sexualized for decades

There is always going to be an element of human nature in what we as a society do publicly. However I remember clearly many decades of censorship that coddled to the 20th century's discretionary remnants of the Victorian age. Sexualized is not a dirty word. You are using it disparagingly as if it were a scapegoat we should be ashamed of.

the ratings systems have lowered enough that even bare breasts are acceptable for young teens.

This statement reads for me to believe that you identify a cause and effect between self-discovery and morality. So you believe teenagers are not mature enough to understand and explore desire? I think that educating teens about their natural needs leads to better choices, including the choice to use protection.

Most times it first occurs between siblings

What? Please show me the verified numbers. I'm dying to know about this hoard of teenagers exposed to nudity that then go directly to incest as a result of it. Of course I must assume that because I do not support censorship, that you are attacking me for being directly responsible for incest.

Children are being raised by the TV or cell-phones this generation because parents cannot afford to stay home and raise them.

This statement is a broad generalization, the kind of statement used in propaganda. There are also many working parents that do a fantastic job of raising their children and they also have televisions and cell phones. I am one of them.

Public education is teaching them WHAT to think, not HOW to think

The education system varies state by state. I happen to live in a state where the public schools are excellent. My mother and grandmother where both teachers. We take pride in our schools and do not need to send our kid's to private school. Maybe you should move.

yet youth participation in the social-media market is the highest it has ever been.

That's because there has never been a social-media market before that they could connect to. There is always going to be a boom in the beginning. Like the pendulum of a clock it will balance out through time and generations.

Sex sells to a base mind

Another attack on my character cleverly disguised as social commentary. Sex sells to anyone with a heartbeat. We cannot deny who we are unless we embrace repression. Do you want to recreate the past when repressed house wives self-medicate to get off and husbands keel over at 55 from liver failure?

To deny sex is to deny personal freedom. Why live within a lie?

but only the mature can appreciate a naked body without having to see it every given moment

Another personal attack implying that I am not mature. What I look at and when, does not determine how to weigh my worth. Only the people closest to me have the right to judge me. I am an individual not a statistic.

not ogling and fantasizing like a hormone-crazed boy.

Another personal attack. Apparently you do not have to be impartial to be a moderator. Censorship is the tool of fascism, which leads to divisions in society which in extreme cases leads to genocide. I enjoy looking at women, but least I'm not a Nazi.

Shall I continue with the personal attack you made on my taste as well?

Is this the fox network? I thought we were all pioneers in literature. Where is the camaraderie?