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Spoiler-Fest: Star Wars VII

Discussion in 'Film & Television' started by Legendary Sidekick, Dec 22, 2015.

  1. Gryphos

    Gryphos Auror

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    I've seen similar theories ever since the casting was announced, and I can't help but feel that a lot of the time people are drawing these conclusions using the flawless logic of 'he's black... Mace Windu was black... Connection?' Due to a complete lack of evidence to support it, I'm fairly confident that Finn is completely unrelated to Mace Windu.

    Personally, I like the idea of Finn not being connected to anyone. He's just a guy who didn't want to be a part of the First Order anymore. And that's fine by me. We already have Rey and Kylo Ren to be the ones who have links to the older characters, we don't need more.The galaxy isn't that small.
     
  2. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    @Gryphos,

    I wasn't going to go there, but now that you did... I totally agree.
     
  3. I loved the throw away joke about using clones. But yeah avoid the prequels at all costs, and then redo them by changing the story and making it be about Obi Wan instead of Whiney McWhinerton.
     
  4. Penpilot

    Penpilot Staff Article Team

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    Did you see the Belated Media youtube channel's attempt at rewriting the prequels? I thought it was really well done.
     
  5. Devor

    Devor Fiery Keeper of the Hat Moderator

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    I saw it last night. I thought it was awesome.

    I agree with others that Rey's abilities both as a pilot and with the force shot up far too quickly.

    I also thought both of the new protagonists had very simple, undeveloped backgrounds to be doing what they're doing. Fin, in particular, worked in sanitation and was afraid to kill people in what he described as his first battle, but then becomes the first storm trooper to be good with a blaster in the history of the franchise. It must be the white helmets - they reflect the light into your eyes and throw off your aim. I like the character fine, he just needed another small twist to his backstory.

    The planet weapon was huge. I had no problem accepting that it might be understaffed for the size, making it easier to infiltrate once you're on the ground. A line of dialogue in that direction would've helped.

    Those are my only real criticisms. The movie was mostly an homage to the originals. That was clear from the start, when the pilot gave a droid important information and sent it running off alone through the desert, all the way up to the new death star weapon. I think that's exactly what the movie and the franchise needed right now. But I hope they're setting themselves up to be more daring with the sequels.


    I saw the theory before seeing the movie, and I had thought maybe. I thought Fin was going to be the Jedi, and the force is hereditary, so it would follow that he was descended from a Jedi. But now that I've seen it, he's not the Jedi at all, and there's no reason to think there's any connection.

    But now who is Rey related to? The speculation! My guess is Qui Gon. I don't think they'll avoid the prequels forever.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2015
  6. Sheilawisz

    Sheilawisz Queen of Titania Moderator

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    I have finally watched Star Wars 7 The Force Awakens today.

    After all it was a good idea to wait the two weeks, because the theater was almost empty and I could enjoy the whole movie without people talking and children screaming. The other good thing is that I was lucky enough to watch it with the original voices, considering how popular the dubbing is around here.

    Now, to my critic:

    The Force Awakens is a very, very cool and highly entertaining movie. I liked all the characters very much, especially Rey. There is not a single boring part in the entire film, really everything was great... It has been definitely a vast improvement over the terrible prequel movies, so congratulations to Disney for a work well done.

    My only problem with Rey is related to my native language: The word Rey means King (El Rey: The King), so from my point of view it's really weird to give that name to a woman. I know that it doesn't matter for English speakers, but they could have given her a more beautiful and womanly name.

    I especially appreciated the various touches of good humor, which are all brilliant and take place at the right moments. The movie is well balanced between adventure, drama, comedy and action.

    Now, the negative critic:

    The Force Awakens is pretty much a remake of A New Hope. The story is told in a different way and there are new characters this time, but in general it's the same freaking story taking place all over again... I felt a little cheated because of this, and I think that Disney is just making loads of money out of the nostalgia of countless fans.

    A New Hope: There is a powerful and super evil organization that threatens to take over the Galaxy. A droid/robot or whatever carries incredibly valuable information, which could either save the Galaxy or doom it. There are rebels fighting against the evil Empire. This Empire has built an incredibly deadly weapon in order to win. The information about how to destroy the Big Weapon eventually falls into rebel hands. A character that lived in a desolated, desert planet is suddenly taken to the adventure and discovers that he/she has special powers. The Big Weapon has a critical weakness. The rebels destroy the Big Weapon by attacking its weaknesses with small fighters, acting under time pressure because said weapon is about to destroy them all. Rebels celebrate in the end and new hope comes to the Galaxy.

    The Force Awakens: There is a powerful and super evil organization that threatens to take over the Galaxy. A droid/robot or whatever carries incredibly valuable information, which could either save the Galaxy or doom it. There are rebels fighting against the evil Empire. This Empire has built an incredibly deadly weapon in order to win. The information about how to destroy the Big Weapon eventually falls into rebel hands. A character that lived in a desolated, desert planet is suddenly taken to the adventure and discovers that he/she has special powers. The Big Weapon has a critical weakness. The rebels destroy the Big Weapon by attacking its weaknesses with small fighters, acting under time pressure because said weapon is about to destroy them all. Rebels celebrate in the end and new hope comes to the Galaxy.

    What the hell happened here?

    When I first saw the trailers for The Force Awakens, I assumed that the Empire was trying to re-build itself and superior Republican forces were fighting to prevent this from happening... And then, as soon as the movie starts we are explained that a new Empire Reloaded but with a different name has come out of nowhere and the Galaxy is in great danger again!

    Wha-What? That's the same formula repeating itself...

    So the victory of the heroes at the end of Star Wars 6 means nothing, because in just thirty years this new Empire showed up and nobody could stop them before they would become powerful and now it's all about Empire vs Rebels again. Just how did this happen? And why? Is it possible that the SW Galaxy is such an uncontrollable mess?

    I guess that the following movies will be called The First Order Strikes Back and The Jedi Returns Again.
     
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  7. Zadocfish

    Zadocfish Troubadour

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    Two things about the freaking insufferable torrents of "it's a ripoff/rehash/whatever of New Hope" from my perspective:

    1: If there was one thing the prequels did that hurt the franchise the most, it was the massive departure from the feel and setting of the original movies. I suspect that the new one is similar to New Hope primarily as a way to re-connect with the fans; simply put, as an assurance that this IS going to be more like the originals than the prequels. It's a concession I totally understand the need for.

    2: The plot threads it has in common with A New Hope are, aside from the droid in the desert bit, virtually superficial. Yeah, the same basic, broad strokes events are happening, but they're happening from a completely different perspective, going a completely different direction, or largely shoved into the background.

    The end with the Death Star knockoff stands out the most to me like this. Sure, there's a Death Star needing to get blown up, but that's not really the focus. The focus was on getting Rey back and then fighting Kylo on the surface of the planet, while a side character takes Luke's role of X-Wing Ace for all of about a minute of screen time.

    The bar scene, too; yeah, there's a bar. But it's used to develop the characters by giving Fin a chance to leave clean, Rey a chance to show off more of her backstory and perspective, and setup the conditions for the climax. That's nothing like how A New Hope did it at all. It's a completely different plot element that, for the sake of familiarity, bears a coat of paint that looks like a scene from A New Hope.

    Basically, there's plot elements that bear a resemblance to A New Hope all over the place, but they're there to tie the world, and the new trilogy in production, to the originals rather than the more recent movies. Moreover, they're used to tell a completely different story, rendering the comparisons between Episode 7 and Episode 4 ultimately a weird example of focusing on the background and ignoring the actual story and characters.
     
    Ireth likes this.
  8. Sheilawisz

    Sheilawisz Queen of Titania Moderator

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    Hey Zadoc.

    I never said that The Force Awakens is a carbon copy of A New Hope, just that it's a remake. There are clearly many differences between both movies, because a remake always adds its own twist and style in order to avoid becoming a straight forward clone of the original material.

    The Force Awakens feels very much like the original trilogy not only because of this, but especially thanks to the fact that it follows the same visual style and sound effects from the classics. The prequel movies were made instead with a stylish and digital approach, which made them feel very different.

    Another way to look at my point is this: Imagine that The Force Awakens had been made by some other producers, almost the same movie but without a connection to Star Wars. The entire world would be calling it a ripoff, a plagiarism of the classic Star Wars... However it happens to be made by the current owners of the SW franchise, so most people do not consider it even a remake.

    The movie is great anyway, excellent entertainment and visually impressive in almost every part.
     
    MineOwnKing likes this.
  9. Ophiucha

    Ophiucha Auror

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    I'm not a big Star Wars fan, but my husband is into it so I went with him to see it on opening night... and a couple of times since. It was nice. All of the ships, which are my favourite part of this series, looked really stunning both inside and out. Carrie Fisher was amazing, and Leia has always been the best character in the Star Wars series, for me. The BB-8 droid had such lovely movement; I was delighted watching him go down the stairs with Rey. I was a huge fan of Attack the Block, so seeing John Boyega in a major picture like this made me very happy for him, and he was easily my favourite new character in the series. He was so cute! I hope we get more backstory for him in later films.

    Didn't like all of it. Harrison Ford was kind of terrible. Chewbacca was very clean and looked out of place -- plus, he seems like he'll be in future films, since he's travelling with Rey now. The small yellow alien with the large eyes was a rather poor effect; there was a scene where she was grabbing someone's hand and it was terrible looking. Kylo Ren might actually be a less compelling villain than Episode 3!Anakin. There wasn't nearly enough of Poe Dameron.

    But I think most of those problems are going to be fixed in the next two films.
     
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  10. Gryphos

    Gryphos Auror

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    Well technically it's not a remake, it's an official sequel to the original trilogy which happens to follow a lot of the same story beats as episode 4. A remake would be if someone physically wanted to make episode 4 again, but this is episode 7.

    But on the subject of the similarity between this and episode 4, I agree with Zadoc in that the similarities are mostly superficial. The whole Starkiller Base stuff only acts as a backdrop for the personal struggle against Kylo Ren (who btw I feel the filmmakers managed to make much more compelling a villain in one film than they did Darth Vader in episode 4). Because of this, the similarities to episode 4 never bothered me, because they used those similar story beats to deliver on different emotional impacts.

    Plus, I feel as though the reason the filmmakers made it so similar to episode 4 was in order to assure audiences that they're capable of delivering on a good Star Wars experience. This was them proving that the Star Wars universe is in good hands before they pull out all the stops on something completely new. And hey, think about it, there's not much left for them to copy, so we're bound to get something different in episodes 8 and 9.
     
  11. Penpilot

    Penpilot Staff Article Team

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    For people's interest, deleted scenes.

    http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awkens-deleted-scenes/


    I'm watching this interview with George Lucas. Charlie Rose | charlierose.com

    I don't want this to degrade into a I hate Lucas thread, so I'll say up front. He seems like a really good guy. He gave up directing for 15 yrs to raise a family. That seems like a guy who has his priorities straight.

    BUTTTTTT, in regards to Lucas the artist/writer/creator. I have never been so UNINSPIRED after listening to another writer speak about their work. Seriously, listening to him speak about his movies is like watching the prequels all over again, all intellect, concept, and no emotion. It was like reading a text book.

    Listening to him talk is like listening to a dad who think's he's still hip. Me thinks he thinks he's more artistic and creative than he actually is. He actually thinks his all black cast movie, Redtails in 2012, was a head of it's time.

    Someone should tell him they made a movie about The Tuskegee Airmen in 1995, and is hardly the first all black cast film.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2015
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  12. MineOwnKing

    MineOwnKing Maester

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    I found Sheilawisz's critique to be very genuine and thoughtful.
     
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  13. T.Allen.Smith

    T.Allen.Smith Staff Moderator

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    I don't disagree there are similarities. I think they're purposeful. First, it's a handoff from what made the franchise great in the 70s to the present, from Lucas to Disney, & from the old cast to the new (with a few of the old cast mixed in).

    I have a feeling it's going to head in a different direction in the next installment. Not totally foreign, but different and unique. If they did that from the get-go, that's a massive risk to take for a $4.2 billion investment. Doing it this way, the fans are eased into the transition before jumping down a different rabbit hole.
     
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  14. MineOwnKing

    MineOwnKing Maester

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    Okay,

    Well, I got my second viewing of Star Wars.

    I found it to be a very different experience. This time I went into the theater without any expectations. I stopped trying to think like an editor and just let myself be a fan.

    Many of the things that bothered me during the first viewing, I saw in a different light.

    The love that I knew as a kid was rekindled.

    And yet I stick by my original review because I know I'm not thinking clearly.

    I compare it to a man not being able to see the flaws in the woman he loves. Or perhaps admiring a woman in a bar with my beer goggles on.

    Love is blind.
     
  15. Tom

    Tom Istar

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    After watching the movie again, I've changed my theory on Rey's origin.

    I think she's related to Obi-Wan Kenobi.

    She has an accent similar to his (I believe it's a Coruscant accent) and she's already shown herself to have a talent for Jedi mind tricks, which were Obi-Wan's specialty. It would also be a great echo of the prequels--a Kenobi and a Skywalker, one devoted to the light and the other pulled towards the dark.

    Well, we'll see what happens in episode VIII. I'll probably be wrong, but you never know.
     
  16. Gryphos

    Gryphos Auror

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    Interesting theory, and I certainly wouldn't be opposed to it if it turned out to be true. Although, I think the accent thing is stretching it a little bit, since many characters in the Star Wars universe have Southern English accents.
     
    Tom likes this.
  17. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Moderator

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    Hell, they made Hallelujah in 1929 and Cabin in the Sky in 1943, and the latter at least is a pretty decent movie.
     
  18. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    I had no trouble seeing the flaws in the Greedo-shot-first edition, nor did I get so caught up in hating it that I couldn't enjoy Special Empire Strikes Back (which is the only Special Edition I consider watchable). I still remember the conversation with my brother after Episode I. "Well... that wasn't that bad." "Yeah, it was... interesting." There was no urge to see it twice. After II, I vowed not to see III in the theater unless on a date. My dating status at the time was "will die a virgin." I had no way of knowing I would meet my wife in 2005, so I did end up seeing III with her at the IFC Tower in Hong Kong.

    This time, I left VII feeling like Star Wars is back. The second time, the magic was still there. I was holding my wife's hand when Solo died. She really didn't see it coming!

    I try not to think like a writer when I watch/read something. Of course, I did to the extent that I knew someone (Luke or Han... not Leia) would die. When I saw how much screen time Han would have (based on how he entered the movie), I knew it would be Han. When Kylo was revealed as his son, Han's killer was revealed. I think most on this site knew that when Han and Chewy were planting the bombs, that was the place. So, the first time, I thought the movie gave too much time to let viewers predict the death. But on the second viewing, I realized it was my writer's hat which some asshole glued onto my head. The 30 seconds they gave viewers to brace themselves for the kill wasn't enough for my wife. She was clinging to the hope that somehow, Han would survive.

    But I try not to ask what could have been better. I was entertained. All the criticisms about who did what too soon... nah, it didn't hurt the entertainment value. I think the movie was better off not explaining how Fin can shoot straight, Rei can kick ass, etc. The plot was moving, and so were the characters. I mean literally moving. Think of all those prequel scenes where we watched Jedi--lots of Jedi!--in a meeting room where there is literally more action happening outside the window than in the room full of Jedi. Yoda: sitting and frowning. Samuel L. Jackson: sitting and not swearing. Flying cars pass by the window.

    That's one major difference between VII and the prequels. I never looked out a CGI window to see something more interesting than the movie.
     
  19. Tom

    Tom Istar

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    It just occurred to me, but does anyone else think Rey's quarterstaff kinda resembles a Magnaguard's staff? Hmm.
     
  20. Gryphos

    Gryphos Auror

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    Yeah kinda. I heard a cool theory though that it's actually a 'light spear' or something like that, which would be so cool!
     
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